Casey Stengel and Dave Roberts...

[Exhibitman]

Read Dynasty by Peter Golenbock. It details the Yankees' teams in the Stengel-Houk era. Casey was a hell of a lot sharper as a manager than most give him credit for, because of his corn-pone public persona. He platooned brilliantly, preserved pitchers' arms despite the trends of the time (Whitey Ford won over 20 only after Stengel left but he pitched into the late 1960s), used an ace reliever (Joe Page) and always looked for others, and generally knew what he was doing. Yes, George Weiss gave him a great bunch of tools to work with and yes, they did have a virtual farm club in KC, but he got the job done. Within five years of his and Weiss's departures, the club turned to crap. His teams had very few stars--only three HOFers (Ford, Mantle and Berra; well, also a few seasons of dimming DiMaggio), but they were deep, disciplined and hungry. On paper. the Red Sox and Dodgers were better teams, but that's why you play the games. Stengel also trained up Berra and Martin, who became good managers, and Elston Howard too, who probably would have gotten to manager had he not died only 5 years after the managerial color barrier was broken.

As for playoffs, sure, there would have been upsets. I am displeased with the playoffs as constituted. I don't think an entire season should boil down to a weekend. But that's another debate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Read Dynasty by Peter Golenbock. It details the Yankees' teams in the Stengel-Houk era. Casey was a hell of a lot sharper as a manager than most give him credit for, because of his corn-pone public persona. He platooned brilliantly, preserved pitchers' arms despite the trends of the time (Whitey Ford won over 20 only after Stengel left but he pitched into the late 1960s), used an ace reliever (Joe Page) and always looked for others, and generally knew what he was doing. Yes, George Weiss gave him a great bunch of tools to work with and yes, they did have a virtual farm club in KC, but he got the job done. Within five years of his and Weiss's departures, the club turned to crap. His teams had very few stars--only three HOFers (Ford, Mantle and Berra; well, also a few seasons of dimming DiMaggio), but they were deep, disciplined and hungry. On paper. the Red Sox and Dodgers were better teams, but that's why you play the games. Stengel also trained up Berra and Martin, who became good managers, and Elston Howard too, who probably would have gotten to manager had he not died only 5 years after the managerial color barrier was broken.

As for playoffs, sure, there would have been upsets. I am displeased with the playoffs as constituted. I don't think an entire season should boil down to a weekend. But that's another debate.

Sure they had stars. Rizzuto (HOFer actually), Mize for a couple of years (same), Bobby Richardson, Allie Reynolds.

[Shoeless Moe]

Stengel is beyond overrated.

All you are talking about is his Yankee years.

You are neglecting the 9 years he managed in Brooklyn & Boston and had a terrible record.

And again with the Mets, 4 brutal years.

I could have managed the 50's Yankees to 7 titles, maybe even 9 or 10.

They were stacked.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Stengel is beyond overrated.

All you are talking about is his Yankee years.

You are neglecting the 9 years he managed in Brooklyn & Boston and had a terrible record.

And again with the Mets, 4 brutal years.

I could have managed the 50's Yankees to 7 titles, maybe even 9 or 10.

They were stacked.

All we were talking about is 7 World Series titles in a decade.

I wish I was as passionate about anything as you are about hating the Yankees

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by G1911

All we were talking about is 7 World Series titles in a decade.

I wish I was as passionate about anything as you are about hating the Yankees

Thank you, I appreciate that.

[campyfan39]

Dodgers have been stacked and look at what Roberts has done.
i am no Stengel apologist but he is infinitely better than Roberts

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Stengel is beyond overrated.

All you are talking about is his Yankee years.

You are neglecting the 9 years he managed in Brooklyn & Boston and had a terrible record.

And again with the Mets, 4 brutal years.

I could have managed the 50's Yankees to 7 titles, maybe even 9 or 10.

They were stacked.

[drcy]

If the team won 111 games you don't fire the manager

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by drcy

If the team won 111 games you don't fire the manager

I'm not sure it's the managers fault when three of his four starting pitchers put up ERAs 5.40 or higher in the playoffs.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sure they had stars. Rizzuto (HOFer actually), Mize for a couple of years (same), Bobby Richardson, Allie Reynolds.

If Stengel's Yankees didn't have many stars, I have no clue what team in history did have many stars. They had one at almost every position.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

If Stengel's Yankees didn't have many stars, I have no clue what team in history did have many stars. They had one at almost every position.

You could fairly call Skowron a star for a number of years.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You could fairly call Skowron a star for a number of years.

Ford, Berra, Mantle, Skowron, Rizzuto, Reynolds, Lopat, Bauer, Mize, Dimaggio, Page, Raschi, Turley (Cy Young counts), Howard, Henrich off the top of my head.

Woodling, McDougald, Coleman, Carey, Siebern, Lindell and numerous others all had star seasons for a year or two with all-star level OPs's. Stengel's Yankees had an absurd number of guys who had career years way over their normal play level when he needed them too.

I am hard pressed to think of a team that produced more star level players. The Yankees had so many they got to platoon stars and had stars on the bench.

[G1911]

Red Schoendienst entered the minors in 1942, the majors in 1945, managed until 1990, and remained a coach until 2017. I believe that's 76 years in organized baseball.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by G1911

Red Schoendienst entered the minors in 1942, the majors in 1945, managed until 1990, and remained a coach until 2017. I believe that's 76 years in organized baseball.

I'm not sure if anyone has even come close to 70 aside from Red. Maybe Lasorda? But I know he spent a lot of time in the minors and bouncing around other leagues.

I think Red truly stands alone in longevity. Counting minors, Essentially 1942-2018 (he did still help coach in 2018) he was part of professional baseball as a player, manager, coach or assistant. 67 of the 76 years being with the cardinals. One of the reasons I love collecting him!

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by G1911

If Stengel's Yankees didn't have many stars, I have no clue what team in history did have many stars. They had one at almost every position.

Agree.

The best managers are the ones that win with the teams that you don't expect too.

Stacked teams managers....c'mon.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Agree.

The best managers are the ones that win with the teams that you don't expect too.

Stacked teams managers....c'mon.

You mean Aaron Boone?

[FrankWakefield]

Jimmie Reese played 3 seasons in the Majors, 1930 and 1931 for the Yankees, then 1932 for the Cardinals.

His first ball card is a ZeeNut, mid 20s, maybe 1925 or 1926... and he's on 1991 Bowman and Leaf cards as a coach, and on a 1993 Pacific card. There's a bunch of years before his first card and his last.

I think I have his second year ZeeNut card, in with a bunch of ZeeNuts somewhere; and one of his more recent cards. I think I have one of his minor league contracts, or I used to have one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would not have thought it possible to top Connie Mack. But I think Reese does by one year. Wow.

[ValKehl]

A HOF manager that folks seldom think about is Bucky Harris. Harris began his playing career with the Senators in 1919, and he became the player-manager in 1924, inheriting a team that had a losing record in 1923. With the same key players, "The Boy Wonder" led the 1924 Senators to its first and only WS Championship before the team relocated to Minnesota. Harris' Senators and WaJo (who won his 2 earlier starts) likely would have also won the 1925 WS, if the 7th game hadn't been played in extremely wet conditions on a muddy field.
Harris also piloted the Yankees to the 1947 WS Championship, giving him 2 WS Championships in 3 attempts. Harris' managerial career totaled 29 years with 5 different teams, mostly with the Senators and Tigers.