The Best Pitcher in Baseball Is?

[Daveyc]

Clemens is the correct answer. by a significant measure. He is the greatest pitcher since integration, which I personally consider the greatest of all time because the real old timers did not play against the full measure of competition.

Cy young, Grover Cleveland Alexander and walter johnson etc were all great, but cannot really be compared with post integration pitchers who faced the best of the world.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Start at 4:11. Four HOURS and eleven minutes that is. I think he was 41.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1eS7462aps

[Carter08]

For primarily post 1980 guys, Clemens first by far. The next few in line are debatable. Can’t argue with Maddux, Pedro, Big Train, Verlander, etc. Mad Max Scherzer even is a delight.

Best short window guy is Doc.

[gonefishin]

I'm sure some one, maybe a lot, will disagree with this:

I wish I would have put a caveat in my post that said, "Not tainted with the steroids issue".

I guess that would put Clemons out of consideration.

Funny no one has mentioned Mariano Rivera - remember him? He was a Yankee also AND a member of the Hall of Fame.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Funny no one has mentioned Mariano Rivera - remember him? He was a Yankee also AND a member of the Hall of Fame.

I don't think people forget him at all; he just pitched less than 1,300 innings. Hard to compete with Maddux, Johnson, Seaver etc. when they hurled well over triple the innings.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don't think people forget him at all; he just pitched less than 1,300 innings. Hard to compete with Maddux, Johnson, Seaver etc. when they hurled well over triple the innings.

The debate about the value of the closer will never be settled, but there is a colorable argument that even the best of them -- Rivera -- is vastly overrated in the court of public opinion.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The debate about the value of the closer will never be settled, but there is a colorable argument that even the best of them -- Rivera -- is vastly overrated in the court of public opinion.

That is an argument I personally tend to agree with, but even giving as much possible credit to the role of the closer as possible, heavily weighting specific innings, giving and every single benefit of the doubt to Rivera and then adding some random points to him just because, I still cannot see how one can possibly come to the conclusion that Rivera produced more value than the very best starters of his time.

Removing Clemens is fair game; if you cancel out his steroid years that appear to have started with the Blue Jays as I recall, he's no longer the #1. Slotting Mariano into his place makes no sense when guys who pitched, 4,000, 5,000 innings at a very, very high level are available to choose instead.