Gun ownership poll

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The man is masterful at avoiding the question. Chicago has very strict gun laws, and it correlates with ridiculously high gun murder rates. Everybody gets upset when a dozen kids are murdered in a school, but if a couple dozen are murdered in Chicago in a week, nobody seems to take notice.

Strict gun control in Chicago is a flat failure.

Does nobody seem to notice or is it something that is talked about all the time and has the national attention? I think it’s the latter. Do you really think the prevalence of violence in Chicago is due to a lack of good guys with guns? At any rate, the main point is that we can’t prevent someone with known terrorist affiliations to purchase as many guns and bullets as they want - that seems like a problem.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Does nobody seem to notice or is it something that is talked about all the time and has the national attention? I think it’s the latter. Do you really think the prevalence of violence in Chicago is due to a lack of good guys with guns? At any rate, the main point is that we can’t prevent someone with known terrorist affiliations to purchase as many guns and bullets as they want - that seems like a problem.

The main point is NOT that we can't prevent a known ISIS member from buying guns. Add up all the murders throughout the country each year. What percentage are committed by known terrorists? Some tiny fraction, well less than one percent?

The main point is that some of the very strictest gun control laws in this country, for decades, have existed in Chicago. Simultaneously, some of the highest gun murder rates have existed in Chicago. So what does a former President, and you, say to that? You both lament not having stricter gun control laws.

I live in a rural area where just about every household has some kind of gun, often more than one. My neighbors are hunters and some, like me, are NRA members. We have almost no murders out here and a primary reason is that criminals know this is a dangerous place for them to commit crime.

Clear your mind of your preconceptions for just one minute and really think about what I'm going to say here. Don't worry, it won't hurt. Ready? Okay, now, if a guy is contemplating committing mass murder, what does it mean to him when he sees on a building's doors: NO GUNS ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES?

Does he think:
a) Well, I can't shoot up this place because I'm not allowed to bring my gun inside

or

b) Wonderful, I can murder to my heart's content with assurance there won't be anyone armed inside to stop me.

?

The harder you make gun ownership and conceal/carry laws for law abiding people, the easier you make it for criminals to murder. Common sense to many.... baffling concept for some.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The main point is NOT that we can't prevent a known ISIS member from buying guns. Add up all the murders throughout the country each year. What percentage are committed by known terrorists? Some tiny fraction, well less than one percent?

The main point is that some of the very strictest gun control laws in this country, for decades, have existed in Chicago. Simultaneously, some of the highest gun murder rates have existed in Chicago. So what does a former President, and you, say to that? You both lament not having stricter gun control laws.

I live in a rural area where just about every household has some kind of gun, often more than one. My neighbors are hunters and some, like me, are NRA members. We have almost no murders out here and a primary reason is that criminals know this is a dangerous place for them to commit crime.

Clear your mind of your preconceptions for just one minute and really think about what I'm going to say here. Don't worry, it won't hurt. Ready? Okay, now, if a guy is contemplating committing mass murder, what does it mean to him when he sees on a building's doors: NO GUNS ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES?

Does he think:
a) Well, I can't shoot up this place because I'm not allowed to bring my gun inside

or

b) Wonderful, I can murder to my heart's content with assurance there won't be anyone armed inside to stop me.

?

The harder you make gun ownership and conceal/carry laws for law abiding people, the easier you make it for criminals to murder. Common sense to many.... baffling concept for some.

Gun enthusiasts love to cite Chicago as proof that gun laws don't work.

But if you look at gun deaths per capita at the state level, it lines up pretty well with states that have loose gun laws and high rates of guns per capita.

Here are the 10 states with the highest gun deaths per capita:

Alaska (24.5 per 100k people)
Alabama (22.9 per 100k people)
Montana (22.5 per 100k people)
Louisiana (21.7 per 100k people)
Mississippi (21.5 per 100k people)
Missouri (21.5 per 100k people)
Arkansas (20.3 per 100k people)
Wyoming (18.8 per 100k people)
West Virginia (18.6 per 100k people)
New Mexico (18.5 per 100k people)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...apita-by-state


Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of gun ownership:

Montana (66.30%)
Wyoming (66.20%)
Alaska (64.50%)
Idaho (60.10%)
West Virginia (58.50%)
Arkansas (57.20%)
Mississippi (55.80%)
Alabama (55.50%)
South Dakota (55.30%)
North Dakota (55.10%)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...rship-by-state

[G1911]

Supreme Court ruled in favor of a constitutional right to carry. Big changes will have to be made in left-wing ban heavy jurisdictions that only give permits to friends of the sheriff.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Gun enthusiasts love to cite Chicago as proof that gun laws don't work.

But if you look at gun deaths per capita at the state level, it lines up pretty well with states that have loose gun laws and high rates of guns per capita.

Here are the 10 states with the highest gun deaths per capita:

Alaska (24.5 per 100k people)
Alabama (22.9 per 100k people)
Montana (22.5 per 100k people)
Louisiana (21.7 per 100k people)
Mississippi (21.5 per 100k people)
Missouri (21.5 per 100k people)
Arkansas (20.3 per 100k people)
Wyoming (18.8 per 100k people)
West Virginia (18.6 per 100k people)
New Mexico (18.5 per 100k people)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...apita-by-state


Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of gun ownership:

Montana (66.30%)
Wyoming (66.20%)
Alaska (64.50%)
Idaho (60.10%)
West Virginia (58.50%)
Arkansas (57.20%)
Mississippi (55.80%)
Alabama (55.50%)
South Dakota (55.30%)
North Dakota (55.10%)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...rship-by-state

Stop it with the facts and statistics! Repeat pro gun speaking points here please.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Stop it with the facts and statistics! Repeat pro gun speaking points here please.

These days, there are "facts" and "alternative facts"...

[G1911]

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...0-843_7j80.pdf

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Gun enthusiasts love to cite Chicago as proof that gun laws don't work.

But if you look at gun deaths per capita at the state level, it lines up pretty well with states that have loose gun laws and high rates of guns per capita.

Here are the 10 states with the highest gun deaths per capita:

Alaska (24.5 per 100k people)
Alabama (22.9 per 100k people)
Montana (22.5 per 100k people)
Louisiana (21.7 per 100k people)
Mississippi (21.5 per 100k people)
Missouri (21.5 per 100k people)
Arkansas (20.3 per 100k people)
Wyoming (18.8 per 100k people)
West Virginia (18.6 per 100k people)
New Mexico (18.5 per 100k people)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...apita-by-state


Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of gun ownership:

Montana (66.30%)
Wyoming (66.20%)
Alaska (64.50%)
Idaho (60.10%)
West Virginia (58.50%)
Arkansas (57.20%)
Mississippi (55.80%)
Alabama (55.50%)
South Dakota (55.30%)
North Dakota (55.10%)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...rship-by-state

We're talking about murder, so suicides need to be filtered out, and when we do that, there is less correlation between gun ownership and murder. Your list shows 7 states in both the high gun death/high gun ownership lists, but looking at only murders, there are only 4 states on both lists.

Also, I wonder how gun ownership is measured among non registered and illegal guns like those owned by gangs and criminals. Furthermore, cause and effect might suggest gun ownership goes up after crime goes up, as people seek to defend themselves. In other words, criminals/murderers are the cause, and higher gun ownership is the result.

Here are the 10 states with the highest murder rate, using your source:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...-rate-by-state

Louisiana (12.4 per 100k)
Missouri (9.8 per 100k)
Nevada (9.1 per 100k)
Maryland (9 per 100k)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100k)
Alaska (8.4 per 100k)
Alabama (8.3 per 100k)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100k)
Illinois (7.8 per 100k)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100k)

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mark17

We're talking about murder, so suicides need to be filtered out, and when we do that, there is less correlation between gun ownership and murder. Your list shows 7 states in both the high gun death/high gun ownership lists, but looking at only murders, there are only 4 states on both lists.

Also, I wonder how gun ownership is measured among non registered and illegal guns like those owned by gangs and criminals. Furthermore, cause and effect might suggest gun ownership goes up after crime goes up, as people seek to defend themselves. In other words, criminals/murderers are the cause, and higher gun ownership is the result.

Here are the 10 states with the highest murder rate, using your source:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...-rate-by-state

Louisiana (12.4 per 100k)
Missouri (9.8 per 100k)
Nevada (9.1 per 100k)
Maryland (9 per 100k)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100k)
Alaska (8.4 per 100k)
Alabama (8.3 per 100k)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100k)
Illinois (7.8 per 100k)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100k)

You just posted a list of states with loose gun laws, with the exception of Maryland and Illinois. And this was to prove your point? Quite the opposite effect.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

You just posted a list of states with loose gun laws, with the exception of Maryland and Illinois. And this was to prove your point? Quite the opposite effect.

Where there are mosquitoes, more people will be using bug spray.

Where there are murders, there will be more law abiding people seeking to defend themselves.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Where there are mosquitoes, more people will be using bug spray.

Where there are murders, there will be more law abiding people seeking to defend themselves.

So basically your point seems to be the more guns, the safer people are. Which has been demonstrated to be the opposite of the truth based on all data.

But keep on believing whatever you want.