Gun ownership poll

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

I do not have a child. If I did, they certainly would not have access to it outside my supervision.

Will you hold knives and other implements of suicide to this same standard?

I'm talking about accidental injuries and deaths in households that have guns. Not specifically your house and your rifle.

As for knives, there just aren't that many accidental injuries and deaths from knives.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I'm talking about accidental injuries and deaths in households that have guns. Not specifically your house and your rifle.

As for knives, there just aren't that many accidental injuries and deaths from knives.

There are not that many for firearms either. I'll use a left-wing pro-gun control source.

NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/10327...death-children) using data from the extremely biased Everytonw group says there were 2,070 'accidental' shootings by children from 2015-2020, and 765 deaths, or 127.5 a year.

127.5 per year from guns, 389 from accidental drownings of under 15's (the gap is even larger, as the guns go up to actual adulthood; https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-R...ercent-in-2021).

Meanwhile 44% of households have a gun, and there are over 400,000,000 of them in civilian hands.

It appears that my home is markedly safer for a child than one with a swimming pool.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

There are not that many for firearms either. I'll use a left-wing pro-gun control source.

NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/10327...death-children) using data from the extremely biased Everytonw group says there were 2,070 'accidental' shootings by children from 2015-2020, and 765 deaths, or 127.5 a year.

127.5 per year from guns, 389 from accidental drownings of under 15's (the gap is even larger, as the guns go up to actual adulthood; https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-R...ercent-in-2021).

Meanwhile 44% of households have a gun, and there are over 400,000,000 of them in civilian hands.

It appears that my home is markedly safer for a child than one with a swimming pool.

Well we can agree on the fact that swimming pools may not be the best idea for households with young kids.

The question is whether having a gun in your home makes one's family safer, and the data says it does not.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

https://psmag.com/news/keeping-a-gun...g-killed-there

https://research.northeastern.edu/do...ake-you-safer/

[G1911]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Well we can agree on the fact that swimming pools may not be the best idea for households with young kids.

The question is whether having a gun in your home makes one's family safer, and the data says it does not.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

https://psmag.com/news/keeping-a-gun...g-killed-there

https://research.northeastern.edu/do...ake-you-safer/

The very first paragraph of your first link, in its entirety:

"After I pulled the trigger and recovered from the recoil, I slowly refocused my eyes on the target. There it was—a tiny but distinct circle next to the zombie's eye, the first bullet hole I'd ever made. I looked down at the shaking Glock 19 in my hands. A swift and strong emotional transformation swept over me. In seconds, I went from feeling nervous, even terrified, to exhilarated and unassailable—and right then I understood why millions of Americans believe guns keep them safe."

Well maybe we can agree here. I think people like this have no business owning a firearm. This is an op-ed from a person who should not own one. Anyone who feels this way from firing a gun needs to see a psychiatrist.

It is comparing the number of 'gun deaths', which are ~60% suicides every year and include people killed by the State that is free of firearm regulation in every proposal I have seen, and also self-defense shootings to an anti-gun study from the 1970's and 80's that even this writer admits is flawed and uses crude odds that concluded that guns in the home led to more shootings, homicides, and suicides.

Even ignoring the many problems, that the author appears to be a little unhinged and extremely biased, this is of course, probably absolutely true. You can't have a shooting without a gun. As this study draws no line between responsible normal citizens and the mentally deranged or criminal, obviously this is the result.

There is absolutely nobody on the other side of the debate from you that thinks that guns owned by anyone make people safer. I do not like speaking for anyone but myself, but I think I can make a common sense case here. We do not think suicidal people should have a gun, or gang members, or violent felons, or the mentally unhinged. We think responsible Americans have the right to do so, as is enshrined in the foundation of our law. I certainly thought that, when I was the victim of a home invasion, the gun in my home increased my safety rather than decreased it. Perhaps I was wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

I'll get to the second and third if they are better than this and there is a reasonable basis here.

[bnorth]

I found these numbers interesting.

From the FBI in 2019.
Homicides by handgun 6365 that was 45.7% of all homicides
Rifles killed 364 or 2.6% of all homicides
600 people died from beatings without weapons or 4.3% of all homicides
knifes killed 1476 or 10.6% of all homicides

The percentage of handgun murders did not shock me. The number of deaths being almost double from no weapon beatings to deaths by rifle kinda shocked me. Also knifes killed around 4 times as many as rifles.

I would be all in for safety courses being required to own guns. Most of the other laws we actually already have.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I found these numbers interesting.

From the FBI in 2019.
Homicides by handgun 6365 that was 45.7% of all homicides
Rifles killed 364 or 2.6% of all homicides
600 people died from beatings without weapons or 4.3% of all homicides
knifes killed 1476 or 10.6% of all homicides

The percentage of handgun murders did not shock me. The number of deaths being almost double from no weapon beatings to deaths by rifle kinda shocked me. Also knifes killed around 4 times as many as rifles.

I would be all in for safety courses being required to own guns. Most of the other laws we actually already have.

I saw similar statistis. Note that there are thousands from "Firearms, type not stated" that do not fall in the handgun or rifle category:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-weapon-used/

Do you think some of the thousands of homicides category are from rifles?

How many of the knife deaths were accidental?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I saw similar statistis. Note that there are thousands from "Firearms, type not stated" that do not fall in the handgun or rifle category:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-weapon-used/

Do you think some of the thousands of homicides category are from rifles?

How many of the knife deaths were accidental?

The unknown firearm showed 3326 or 23.9%. My guess since it is unknown is likely very very small percentage of rifles with the majority being handguns.

I hope the FBI would not be using accidents with knifes as homicides. I did notice in one of your links that gun suicides went down but knife suicides went up after the gun ban. Same outcome just a different tool.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The unknown firearm showed 3326 or 23.9%. My guess since it is unknown is likely very very small percentage of rifles with the majority being handguns.

I hope the FBI would not be using accidents with knifes as homicides. I did notice in one of your links that gun suicides went down but knife suicides went up after the gun ban. Same outcome just a different tool.

Handguns: 8,029
Rifles: 455
Shotguns: 203
Unknown type: 4,863

I agree we can apply common sense. Most of these unknown are going to be handguns, probably in similar ration to the known ones. The majority of these are probably .22lr shootings where it can't be determined because it could have been fired from either a rifle or a pistol; whereas most calibers tend to be 90%+ a rifle or a pistol.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

Handguns: 8,029
Rifles: 455
Shotguns: 203
Unknown type: 4,863

I agree we can apply common sense. Most of these unknown are going to be handguns, probably in similar ration to the known ones. The majority of these are probably .22lr shootings where it can't be determined because it could have been fired from either a rifle or a pistol; whereas most calibers tend to be 90%+ a rifle or a pistol.

Less worried about handguns in terms of my and other kids’ safety. Situations can largely be avoided. Always a threat of course. Most worried about a mass shooting. Wish we could all agree that it would be best to restrict ARs because that’s what is being used, not handguns.

And the good guy with a gun to stop a psycho with an AR. Unless he has a kid in the room, my guess is he or she pusses out. No offense to you responsible gun owners but if the situation becomes real I doubt you’re taking a bullet for my kid.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Less worried about handguns in terms of my and other kids’ safety. Situations can largely be avoided. Always a threat of course. Most worried about a mass shooting. Wish we could all agree that it would be best to restrict ARs because that’s what is being used, not handguns.

And the good guy with a gun to stop a psycho with an AR. Unless he has a kid in the room, my guess is he or she pusses out. No offense to you responsible gun owners but if the situation becomes real I doubt you’re taking a bullet for my kid.

The statistics do not align with your concerns though. You can worry about whatever, we all do to some extent, but I don’t see why I should be criminalized because of a concern you have that is not only not founded in statistics but is in direct opposition to it. I do not see how you can possibly avoid being shot with a handgun but not a rifle by avoiding bad situations.

I don’t see why anyone would expect gun owners to leap, movie style, in front of a bullet to save your kid and take a bullet. What they can do is shoot back and maybe end the threat much faster. Like the NRA instructor in Texas who grabbed his AR-15 when he heard a church shooting, chased down and killed the gunman who was moving to location 2 to continue his slaughter. I don’t see why public policy should be based on the fear one side has without regard to its rationality.

I don’t see why anyone on the gun side would consider this some sort of fair compromise or across the aisle opportunity, being criminalizing based on a fear you have that is not in accord with any evidence.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Less worried about handguns in terms of my and other kids’ safety. Situations can largely be avoided. Always a threat of course. Most worried about a mass shooting. Wish we could all agree that it would be best to restrict ARs because that’s what is being used, not handguns.

And the good guy with a gun to stop a psycho with an AR. Unless he has a kid in the room, my guess is he or she pusses out. No offense to you responsible gun owners but if the situation becomes real I doubt you’re taking a bullet for my kid.

What an absolute slap to the face of every single person who has died for this country - first responders and military members.

The police response to the Uvalde shooting was putrid, but it's also highly questionable and needs investigating rather than chalking them up to being pansies.

Find the right people to do the job, and you'll have the right protection.