Catch 22 of card grading - is it worth the gamble?

[Casey2296]

Sounds like SGC, their graders are on a "trimmed", "altered" kick right now when it comes to pre-war.

[Johnny630]

I’m going to preface that i myself really like sending cards in for grading only within certain limits expectations, kinda pick and choose your best cards with the most upside potential. I never crack cards without knowing the history, where it come from raw, whom it was graded by ect. I’ll only usually do this on cards I had raw first.

That being said I have noticed it seems like far to many feel the need to just grade And hope for the best. It’s like a gambler who had some luck grading in the past, maybe scored on a couple cards.
Now they think they’re good and can one up the house so then send in. When cards come back much harsher graded then expected they have an issue of wether to cut their losses or double down. Many double down and repeat the same cycle, it’s a gamble, could it work or could it be danger zone, idk but check some peoples credit card bills who are pissed when they get charged and aren’t getting the graded they perceived. If you have conviction in your card sure keep trying but to arbitrarily keep sending back in is risky business.

[BobC]

Has anyone heard of an instance where someone who paid for grading with a credit card took exception to the grades they got, and filed a claim with their credit card company because they felt they were cheated and not given the proper service they paid for?

I myself do not send cards in to be graded. (Only submitted items once to prove authenticity.) But I hear and understand that TPGs normally won't tell submitters exactly what they found/feel is wrong with a card when grading it, and also claim to not keep notes or records to really back up their opinions either. So, if someone felt they really got screwed by a TPG, could they get away with taking them to task and claiming they did not accurately grade their cards and, therefore, successfully file a claim for refund with their CC company? Since the TPGs claim to keep no notes or records, what would they have to show to a CC company to prove they actually did what they claimed and got paid for, to examine and ACCURATELY grade and encapsulate someone's cards.

Would be interesting to hear the outcome if someone's ever tried doing that.

[icurnmedic]

I have actually heard of someone filing with their CC company. I recall it was Beckett,but not sure if I ever heard the outcome.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

I have actually heard of someone filing with their CC company. I recall it was Beckett,but not sure if I ever heard the outcome.

Hmmmm! Interesting, and if someone were to be successful, very surprised it isn't widely done much more frequently. Too bad we don't know the outcome from this one instance.

[Rich Falvo]

You’re not guaranteed a specific grade. You’re paying for a service. I don’t see how you could argue that you didn’t get what you paid for.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

You’re not guaranteed a specific grade. You’re paying for a service. I don’t see how you could argue that you didn’t get what you paid for.

No disrespect, but how many threads have we had on here with people questioning TPG grades and how they always seem to be graded more harshly than they should?

How about this, take a TPG to court and as part of your argument, bring along a card graded by them say 10-20 years ago, and put it up against a similar card graded by them say this past year. And then ask them to explain to a jury why the cards may look like they have been graded on completely different standards. Would love to hear what a TPG owner/employee/rep would say on a witness stand, under oath. Would be interesting to see if they would actually admit to maybe having changed their standards over the years, and hear them then maybe explain why they supposedly changed them without having informed any of their customers they've been doing this. And instead of giving their grade "opinions" based on a supposedly constant and unchanging set of fixed standards.

And before you, or anyone else, again says it doesn't matter because it is just an opinion, try telling that to Trump regarding his issues with real estate appraisals in New York. Those appraisals are nothing more than opinions also. And you can't really claim those issues are different from cards because they involve property values as these TPG grades are what are basically used to determine a card's market value as well. And as we've learned of late over the years, even a slight error and/or difference in a card's TPG given grade can easily equate to a difference of thousands, tens of thousands, or even more dollars, in a card's value.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hmmmm! Interesting, and if someone were to be successful, very surprised it isn't widely done much more frequently. Too bad we don't know the outcome from this one instance.

Well you also have to be willing to never use said company again, so it is a game with consequences.

[oldeboo]

Bob, I understand what you're saying and in a way agree, but companies like SGC and PSA have terms and conditions that outline what they offer. They both have your example of grading standards today versus 10-20 years ago covered. Below are two quotes taken from their websites:

SGC
"Customer acknowledges and agrees the grading and/or authentication of items requires the exercise of individual judgment and professional opinion, which is subjective in nature, and can change from time to time. Therefore, SGC makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to Customer for the grade or determination of authenticity assigned by SGC to any item."

PSA
"Customer acknowledges that such grading involves individual judgments that are subjective and require the exercise of professional opinions, which can change from time to time. Therefore, except as provided below, Customer agrees that PSA shall have no liability to Customer or any other third party for the grade assigned by PSA to any card."

Some common terms:
Customer acknowledges
Individual judgment
Professional opinion
Subjective
Can change from time to time
No liability

That is grading in a nutshell. Each company gives you two sentences that include the same ideas from the list above. Professional opinions might be partially formed by existing grading standards. However, an opinion, by definition, is "not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." There might be a loose set of grading guidelines, but there is no checklist or proof required. Nowhere in the terms and conditions does it say that a card with a 1/2" crease can't grade higher than a certain grade, while a card with a 1" crease must be graded lower.

Someone that sends in cards for grading is asking for subjective individual judgments and professional opinions that can change from time to time. That is what they get.

Whether grading companies should offer more quantifiable data can be debated, but people don't even seem all that interested in simple sub-grades, let alone a list of data that can be derived from artificial intelligence. For an extra 50 bucks a card, would most people want a 20 point artificial intelligence inspection report that is available online that helps to justify the overall grade? I doubt it.

How many people complain about owning overgraded cards? For many sellers, the large majority of their graded cards are undergraded and none are overgraded. The cards that had to be graded four times are the only accurately graded ones. Only auction houses have overgraded cards. (some degree of sarcasm in the last few sentences)

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Well you also have to be willing to never use said company again, so it is a game with consequences.

That is true.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by BobC

Has anyone heard of an instance where someone who paid for grading with a credit card took exception to the grades they got, and filed a claim with their credit card company because they felt they were cheated and not given the proper service they paid for?

I myself do not send cards in to be graded. (Only submitted items once to prove authenticity.) But I hear and understand that TPGs normally won't tell submitters exactly what they found/feel is wrong with a card when grading it, and also claim to not keep notes or records to really back up their opinions either. So, if someone felt they really got screwed by a TPG, could they get away with taking them to task and claiming they did not accurately grade their cards and, therefore, successfully file a claim for refund with their CC company? Since the TPGs claim to keep no notes or records, what would they have to show to a CC company to prove they actually did what they claimed and got paid for, to examine and ACCURATELY grade and encapsulate someone's cards.

Would be interesting to hear the outcome if someone's ever tried doing that.

Bob I don’t think so. When you send in the cards you’re agreeing to only be paying for their opinion, that’s it.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Bob I don’t think so. When you send in the cards you’re agreeing to only be paying for their opinion, that’s it.

I know, and don't disagree at all. But to form that opinion, don't they agree to examine and look over a card to make their assessment. With supposedly no notes and records, how could they ever prove to anyone they actually did a thorough and proper exam of a card? And aren't there grading standards they are supposed to go by, so their opinion is actually supposed to be based on a factual and supposed uniform and established set of those standards.

Watching a TV show or movie, and then saying you like it or not, now that is a pure opinion. But having a staff of graders who are all supposedly reviewing and grading a card based on a fixed set of standards put forth by the TPG for ALL their grading staff to follow, that isn't so clearly a true opinion to me, and clearly isn't necessarily each grader's true individual opinion either.