As I See It...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Aaahhhh, Peter, now that is one difference I was trying to keep out of it, the investment side. If someone just truly wanted to own a piece of the Wagner, either way, the person buying into a corporate owner or a card syndicate owner would end up with what they wanted, an ownership piece of the Wagner card, right? Now if they wanted a bigger piece of it, they could always buy more stock in the corporation, or more units in the card syndicate. But I don't think there'd be much difference in such an owner's eyes between owning say .000001 or .00001 of something. At that level I think such a person would/should be happy to own any nominal interest in a card such as the Wagner, no matter how small.

But if you're talking about buying in as an investment and to make money, that was not the ownership aspect I was referring to. So hopefully then you'll agree that I'm right with my original statement if you take the investor from the conversation. But if you are looking at it from purely the investment side, I agree with you, you're probably better off if you can buy in through a card syndicate.

(And I also wouldn't want to own a fractional interest either way like that in any card, just like you.)

Why would any COLLECTOR want to own a fraction of a card?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why would any COLLECTOR want to own a fraction of a card?

LOL

So are you also asking me why would any collector want to own a fractional piece of a player's game used bat or jersey?

Heck, we've got people that collect infield dirt from ballpark's for cripessake. Some people will collect anything, even if you and I won't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

So are you also asking me why would any collector want to own a fractional piece of a player's game used bat or jersey?

Heck, we've got people that collect infield dirt from ballpark's for cripessake. Some people will collect anything, even if you and I won't.

Well at least there you can possess the stupid thing and look at it, not own it in some abstract vehicle like a whatever the acronym here is. BIg difference between here son, look at this piece of Mickey Mantle's bat and here son look at my token reflecting I own a fractional share of a Mantle rookie.

[Exhibitman]

Well I know where my heart is:



but dropping 4 or 5 figures on a card is a decision that has a definite financial component for me, so I also know where my head has to be:



My wife thinks it is all



Or to paraphrase Sam Kinison: there's women and money and cards...and religion if you can fit it in.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well at least there you can possess the stupid thing and look at it, not own it in some abstract vehicle like a whatever the acronym here is. BIg difference between here son, look at this piece of Mickey Mantle's bat and here son look at my token reflecting I own a fractional share of a Mantle rookie.

Peter,

I'm with you, but you know there will always be some people that will just want to be able to say they owned at least a piece of this card or that card at one time. Look how people on this forum often say they once owned this or that card or item that is being shown or talked about. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it does show those people most likely had some pride or satisfaction in once owning a particular card or item, and can still derive some pleasure or satisfaction, and even a connection, in being able to share that ownership experience with others.

Now are the majority of people doing something like this probably out there for the money, heck yeah! But it doesn't necessarily mean they all are, is all I'm thinking.

[LEHR]

I've said it a hundred times before and I'll say it again: I've collected something for 40+ years now and as much as I love the things I collect, I also can't not look at anything that I spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on as an investment.

Also, this hobby like everything else in the world will continue to evolve or it will die, nothing can or will stay the same forever. Sure we'd all like to go back to the days of buying $1 T206's or $50 Mantle's, but that is no longer reality and will never be reality as much as some people reminisce about "the good ol' days".
People may not like the way the hobby is evolving with constant talk of ROI, flipping for profit, investors over collectors, fractional shares of cards, etc., but IMO the hobby has never had more interest or been healthier than it is right now.

Just my two cents.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by LEHR

I've said it a hundred times before and I'll say it again: I've collected something for 40+ years now and as much as I love the things I collect, I also can't not look at anything that I spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on as an investment.

Also, this hobby like everything else in the world will continue to evolve or it will die, nothing can or will stay the same forever. Sure we'd all like to go back to the days of buying $1 T206's or $50 Mantle's, but that is no longer reality and will never be reality as much as some people reminisce about "the good ol' days".
People may not like the way the hobby is evolving with constant talk of ROI, flipping for profit, investors over collectors, fractional shares of cards, etc., but IMO the hobby has never had more interest or been healthier than it is right now.

Just my two cents.

The only part where I would disagree, is that as a vintage collector, it's significantly more difficult to get into the Hobby now, then It was 20,30 years ago. When some Ruths, Gehrigs, Mantles, and Cobbs cost three paychecks, nowadays, it becomes difficult to rationalize the purchase. I do agree though, interest in our hobby is better than ever.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by Seven

The only part where I would disagree, is that as a vintage collector, it's significantly more difficult to get into the Hobby now, then It was 20,30 years ago. When some Ruths, Gehrigs, Mantles, and Cobbs cost three paychecks, nowadays, it becomes difficult to rationalize the purchase.

Agreed. It's astonishing to me that cards I would but for X just two years ago are now in some cases 5X-10X-20X more expensive. And I can definitely see why this upsets the passive/old time collectors who can look past money spent on their collection. The same with new product, there is no "kids" hobby anymore with the majority of new boxes selling for $200-$2k+; but on the same hand I've never seen more kids at shows with hands full of hundred dollar bills either. It's definitely an interesting place the hobby is in right now.

[Yoda]

As one who started collecting in 1951 and saw the birth and collector joy to our gang of the new 1952 Topps, I am first, foremost and always will be, a collector. But at the same time, I am a wholesale seller to the AH's in order to upgrade the collection and be on the lookout for fresh opportunities. This, of course, has been more and more difficult as vintage card prices, for those cards I seek, has increased exponentially. Therefore, my current strategy is to downsize and increase the cash flow in order to upgrade the core collection while hoping to stumble upon chances to grab something on my revised, more realistic want list.
These days even hard core collectors have to run their card collection like a business; projected cash flows, target marketing, e.g. B/S/T, distribution, etc.
It ain't like it used to be.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

As one who started collecting in 1951 and saw the birth and collector joy to our gang of the new 1952 Topps, I am first, foremost and always will be, a collector. But at the same time, I am a wholesale seller to the AH's in order to upgrade the collection and be on the lookout for fresh opportunities. This, of course, has been more and more difficult as vintage card prices, for those cards I seek, has increased exponentially. Therefore, my current strategy is to downsize and increase the cash flow in order to upgrade the core collection while hoping to stumble upon chances to grab something on my revised, more realistic want list.
These days even hard core collectors have to run their card collection like a business; projected cash flows, target marketing, e.g. B/S/T, distribution, etc.
It ain't like it used to be.

It never is. Remember the doom and gloom, sky is falling forecasts over the early 1952 Mantle sales? The derision for the "Rolex guys" throwing money around as loudly as their Hawaiian shirts? Or the 'day traders' swapping 100-count boxes of 1989 UD Griffey cards at local shows in 1990? The "smoke detectors without batteries" (to quote Dennis Purdy from his infamous VCBC screed on PSA) derision when PSA started? The entire phrase "shiny crap" to crap on a decade of cards? In the 45 years I have been involved with the 'Hobby' there has been one 'the sky is falling/you kids get off my lawn' after another.

Change is hard and nowhere is it harder than when old fart collectors (including me!) have to adjust to new collecting instrumentalities, attitudes or cost structure. So is there an investment mentality now that never was there before? Hell yes, and there has to be for 99% of vintage collectors, or you are stuck collecting 1950-55 Callahan, 1960-61 Fleer, 1961 Golden Press, etc. I love all those sets (and for that matter, TCMA, Rowe, SSPC, etc.) but I am very happy I heavily collected vintage cards 30 years ago because I could never afford to do it now.

[jingram058]

Okay, I finally see the light. I am officially a dinosaur. Rock and roll? Dead. Hot rods? Well on their way. Sex? When you're my age, keep on pretending. Card collecting? I GET IT! YEE HA!!! All you have to do is sell all the cards you once liked in order to raise capital to expend in the fractional ownership of the one card you always wanted, but now realise just ain't ever gonna happen, baby. Yeah, that's a swell hobby.