PWCC - Sorry, Yet Again

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Would you care to share how you know the investigation is still ongoing? I have no knowledge of whether the investigation has been completed or not. But I do know that they were investigated. I did not misspeak. Perhaps they are also still being investigated, but at this point (as it has been years now) the onus is on you to provide evidence of that claim if you wish to make it.

Hate to tell you Snowman, but Ted/Republicaninmass has a very good point in regards to your earlier response where you stated, "I've read enough to know that their actions have been THOUROUGHLY investigated by the FBI for the laundry list of accusations made on the Blowhard forums." I know you are very intelligent and quite articulate so, when using the word "thouroughly", you are stating that the FBI has in fact completely investigated every detail in regards to these accusations, which most normal, intelligent people would take to mean that the FBI has nothing more to look at and investigate in this regard (ie: They ARE done investigating). But then in a later thread you stated you never said they completed the investigation, and that you didn't know if they were done with it or not. So you've made completely conflicting statements within a couple of posts of each other. I can fully and easily see how people are being confused by some of what you're saying, and therefore questioning it. So be kind when telling others to go back because they didn't properly read what you wrote, it can also apply to yourself as well.

Another point in regards to your statements and ongoing debate with several others on here regarding the treatment and opinions towards PWCC, I saw you state that though late to the party, you feel you've pretty much seen and read all the applicable posts out there, and how you feel up to date on what has transpired so far in regards to PWCC and all the accusations. You have mentioned that there is really no definitive proof of any wrong doing on PWCC's part that has actually been presented to the hobby community as a whole yet, and therefore are withholding any final determination as to their guilt or innocence, which I can fully understand and agree with under those circumstances.

Now, it hasn't been spefically brought up in this thread, but it has previously been brought up by others on this forum that they had in the past communicated directly with Brent at PWCC about a lot of past activity and consignments he allegedly accepted and sold on behalf of at least one particularly well known card doctor. And if my memory serves me correctly, when the issues and examples of all the card doctoring taking place in the hobby started being exposed on Blowout, that was when Brent started getting questioned and allegedly admitted to having taken consignments and worked with this known card doctor in the past, but supposedly was telling those then questioning him that he was no longer doing business with that person anymore. Now I don't remember the exact details, but it was then reported on this forum that it was somehow found out or determined that Brent/PWCC was in fact still working with this known card doctor after all, despite his statements that he wasn't anymore. Do you remember coming across and reading that info on this forum as well, and if so, would that in your thinking be positive evidence that Brent/PWCC was knowledgeable after all in regards to the acceptance and continued selling of items from a known card doctor? I guess the question would be, why would someone tell people they no longer took consignments from a known card doctor if in fact they still were?

I would think that as the Blowout guys kept exposing altered cards being sold that it would be pretty easy for who ever was selling them to have their people look up who the consignor(s) was/were. And once discovering such info, do you think they should maybe confront them about it and stop doing business with repeat consignors of such exposed, altered cards? I'm pretty confident people were and still are trying to contact and make whoever is/was selling such doctored cards aware of that fact, based on numerous posts and comments of people on this and other forums. So I doubt any such major sellers can plead total ignorance to this issue. And I can also understand your stance that maybe these sellers aren't directly involved in actually altering any cards, or in the improper grading of such cards by TPGs totally missing/ignoring the alterations. But does that then excuse all these sellers in your mind from not being complicit to some extent? It is kind of hard (really pretty much impossible) for any major seller to not be aware of what is going on in the hobby in regards to alterations. So if they aren't somehow complicit, why aren't they all being totally transparent with everyone as to what they are doing to stop dealing with altered cards?

Or maybe it is already too late and hobby purists, like many are here on Net54, are the old and fading part of the hobby who's thinking and actions are slowly being transformed by the incoming younger generations, investors, registry addicts, people who do not mind card restoration, and so on. In that case we may be nothing more than a dwindling minority and no action will ever come from our objections as the rest of the hobby community accepts things we do not want to. And if that turns out to be the case, maybe card doctors and alterations become the norm and an accepted part of the hobby, even if a TPG grades it without recognizing any such alterations. With no single, uniform, recognized standards in the hobby, it is going to be difficult for anyone to be found guilty of anything for relying upon someone else's opinion. And this may be another reason why AHs and sellers aren't saying/doing much about alterations and card doctors, as they see the changes and acceptance coming more and more in the future. And they realize that there is already so much altered and doctored material out there in graded slabs that it is impossible to ever go back and correct it all, so they don't. They just sit tight and be quiet as more and more old time purist collectors go away over time. Who really knows anymore.