Well this sure is interesting! Goldin/PSA now the same?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It certainly appeared that PWCC and others had preferential treatment at PSA (and SGC) and they are not even an insider. How is one to really take Ken Goldin seriously?

And at the end of the day does Ken or anyone else really need to come out and assure anyone? Personally I would feel better if they would have just told us all if we don't like the new arrangement to pound sand.

Take him as a business man who is about making himself richer.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Could not agree more. Let's go back to REA and Brockelman Auctions for consignments.

Plenty of AH's that don't even come close to questioning potential impropriety, REA, Brockelman, LOTG, Collector Connection, just to name a few. I feel more comfortable supporting these AH's both on the buy side and consignment side.

[keithsky]

When Goldin got started in his auctions it was the little guy like us that got him off the ground and made him successful but we're long gone now. It's all those millionaires and billionaires that you see buying in his auctions. To hell with the little guy anymore. Oh how we forget.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by keithsky

When Goldin got started in his auctions it was the little guy like us that got him off the ground and made him successful but we're long gone now. It's all those millionaires and billionaires that you see buying in his auctions. To hell with the little guy anymore. Oh how we forget.

A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Take him as a business man who is about making himself richer.

I see nothing wrong with that, on principle. I work to make myself richer too.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires?

These are the days of miracle and wonder….

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I see nothing wrong with that, on principle. I work to make myself richer too.

Neither do I, it’s his prerogative.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by keithsky

When Goldin got started in his auctions it was the little guy like us that got him off the ground and made him successful but we're long gone now. It's all those millionaires and billionaires that you see buying in his auctions. To hell with the little guy anymore. Oh how we forget.

While it is true that the high dollar auction items cater to the super wealthy, I regularly win items in Goldin Auctions that are worthy of being in collections but not worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.

I give Ken credit for growing a company from the old days 25 years ago on late night TV(literally 3-5 AM) when he was hyping Mantle and Dimaggio autographs and 1987 Topps wax boxes to his current windfall.

There are still deals to be had for collectors in most of his auctions and I assume there will continue to be. You just have to look harder if you are not a multi millionaire to find the underpriced collector gems. Star by searching by lowest priced items on the final auction day and when you reach your limit price wise, stop looking.

When all items in his auctions start bringing 5 figures and up, I will stop looking. Until then, I will look no matter who owns the company.

And I agree with a few others, good for him and I don't blame him one bit for taking a couple hundred million for his company.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It bears repeating, yet again.

Stuff trumps all.

[Johnny630]

It’s a Asset Commodity Investment Opportunity to all of them in this firm....I don’t care where their roots come from or what they may claim to have as a “collection” that’s bull sh$ It’s all about big ticket items and their returns.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It seems there's huge money these days in high grade slabbed cards with manufactured scarcity, particularly basketball. I do wonder if that model is sustainable over the long term.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by rand1com

While it is true that the high dollar auction items cater to the super wealthy, I regularly win items in Goldin Auctions that are worthy of being in collections but not worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.

I give Ken credit for growing a company from the old days 25 years ago on late night TV(literally 3-5 AM) when he was hyping Mantle and Dimaggio autographs and 1987 Topps wax boxes to his current windfall.

There are still deals to be had for collectors in most of his auctions and I assume there will continue to be. You just have to look harder if you are not a multi millionaire to find the underpriced collector gems. Star by searching by lowest priced items on the final auction day and when you reach your limit price wise, stop looking.

When all items in his auctions start bringing 5 figures and up, I will stop looking. Until then, I will look no matter who owns the company.

And I agree with a few others, good for him and I don't blame him one bit for taking a couple hundred million for his company.

An anonymous post praising Ken Goldin. I am not surprised.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It seems there's huge money these days in high grade slabbed cards with manufactured scarcity, particularly basketball. I do wonder if that model is sustainable over the long term.

Despite their BS Emails about the strength, popularity, and long-term potential I think they know this will only last so long, they have an exit strategy when the time comes. Until then they will keep leveraging every facet of this market pumping all the way....nothing has stopped them thus far.....TaKe It with a grain of salt.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Despite their BS Emails about the strength, popularity, and long-term potential I think they know this will only last so long, they have an exit strategy when the time comes. Until then they will keep leveraging every facet of this market pumping all the way....nothing has stopped them thus far.....TaKe It with a grain of salt.

That would be my belief -- that eventually the music stops.
I can't believe real people are going to continue to pay these astronomical sums on these type of cards for the indefinite future.

[peanuts]

Honestly, this isn't super surprising. Nat Turner did an interview on SportsCardsLive a few weeks back and briefly talked about where he wanted to take PSA/CU Group in the future. He said that the "trust and faith in" the PSA brand was a big part of its value, especially with newer collectors, and thought it could be tapped in to. It sounded more like he was leaning towards a storage/buy/sell marketplace operated by PSA, but running an AH fits the bill!

I think that only time will tell whether or not the sale is a net positive. Fingers crossed that this all goes well!

(Link to his interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Cbq8W98MY)

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by peanuts

honestly, this isn't super surprising. Nat turner did an interview on sportscardslive a few weeks back and briefly talked about where he wanted to take psa/cu group in the future. He said that the "trust and faith in" the psa brand was a big part of its value, especially with newer collectors, and thought it could be tapped in to. It sounded more like he was leaning towards a storage/buy/sell marketplace operated by psa, but running an ah fits the bill!

I think that only time will tell whether or not the sale is a net positive. Fingers crossed that this all goes well!

(link to his interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9cbq8w98my)

"especially with the newer collectors" is key here as those of us who have been around since the beginning have seen how trusworthy psa is!

[arcadekrazy]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

These are the days of miracle and wonder….

This is the long distance call.

[Rich Klein]

Skipping ALL the other arguments on this subject, from what I hear almost NO ONE works harder (and will probably continue to do so) than Ken Goldin and that hard work has garnered him quite a payday.

It's nice to see someone who works hard and inspires his team to do as well get rewarded.

Rich

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

An anonymous post praising Ken Goldin. I am not surprised.

Not any longer...

and I agree with Rich right above here. Ken works very hard and it's paying off.
.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not any longer...

and I agree with Rich right above here. Ken works very hard and it's paying off.
.

Just ask my dead grandmother about home shopping network. Its working smarter, not harder these days.

[Johnny630]

All I can Say is we have reached a point where people want outrageous prices, comparable to PWCC, Goldin, Heritage Ect.....this is exactly what the auction houses and PSA want. The only time I’ve ever seen their sale numbers is in their auctions I’ve never seen on bSt or in person at shows people paying that number in cash. Never seen it. Have You?

Everything Is Cornered in their favor, brilliant move by that Group.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by marzoumanian

“We’re very mindful of the integrity of PSA and would never do anything to harm it."--Nat Turner

My laugh of the day. Fasten your seat belts, folks. This hobby is going warp speed. Hang on.

This also gave me quite a chuckle.

We all know PSA has graded altered cards and when shown the proof, they just shrug it off and go on their merry way with no consequences other than increasing their bottom line.

We all also know that many AHs have auctions at about the same time and they often will send cards in to PSA to be graded before the auction. What's to keep PSA from slow walking submissions from other AHs who have an upcoming auction at about the same time as Goldin so as to miss the next auction while getting Goldin submissions through on time to make it to their auction? Purely speculation on my part, but based on the previous paragraph, what's to stop them? The other AHs do get the graded cards and can have them in the following auction. No problem right? If you have an ungraded card that would get more money graded and you want the AH to send it in for you, who would you choose as the AH?

In regards to Ken himself, I don't know him. I've gotten items in his auctions and have no complaints about any of the transactions. I don't begrudge him for making the big bucks. Kudos to him. But, it seems some people here love sayings, so here are a few:

“If you choose bad companions, no one will believe that you are anything but bad yourself.” ― Aesop, Aesop's Fables

"For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas." -- John Webster

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." -- Warren Buffett

“Don't make a deal with the devil, if you do you will lose something important that you once had.” ― Karen Dang

(Yes these are cut and pasted and I do not vouch for who actually said what.)

Bottom line, considering the "integrity" of PSA, I think this is bad for the hobby.

[MattyC]

The play this Nat Turner and his cronies are making with this unholy alliance of PSA and Goldin is so easy to see coming at us. Of course they don’t care how brazen it is, because there is no regulation — and degenerate addicts will bid for their “fix” of stuff no matter what. They’ll make one hell of a profit when they flip these businesses (after they’ve driven up valuations thru a steady stream of record sales of their slabs at their AH, trumpeted in the media). We will see eye opening sales of favorable grades, bought by investors in both companies, just like when one of the PSA 10 Jordan outlier sales was bought and brandished by someone who has a stake in the investor group. They expect us to whip out pom poms and cheer it all on as our card values rise.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The play this Nat Turner and his cronies are making with this unholy alliance of PSA and Goldin is so easy to see coming at us. Of course they don’t care how brazen it is, because there is no regulation — and degenerate addicts will bid for their “fix” of stuff no matter what. They’ll make one hell of a profit when they flip these businesses (after they’ve driven up valuations thru a steady stream of record sales of their slabs at their AH, trumpeted in the media). We will see eye opening sales of favorable grades, bought by investors in both companies, just like when one of the PSA 10 Jordan outlier sales was bought and brandished by someone who has a stake in the investor group. They expect us to whip out pom poms and cheer it all on as our card values rise.

P.T. Barnum might have been in the card business if alive today.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

P.T. Barnum might have been in the card business if alive today.

Yes he would.

We have so many suckers and sheep who buy it all, it’s a addiction fueled on passion of sports, hobby , and money.. Not All So Called Investment Cards Go Up, Oh wait or does it it ? Especially if you send it to to Privileged AH’’s better yet one that was bought out by the same IG that grades the cards!!!

I don’t begrudge anyone who sends their cards to Goldin or PWCC they market the hell out of their brand and service. It’s all tied in the Money is being made by the big players we are just along for the ride. I’ll say it again Not Every Investment Always Goes Up. Once the big guys find another way to make more money they will move on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Yes he would.

We have so many suckers and sheep who buy it all, it’s a addiction fueled on passion of sports, hobby , and money.. Not All So Called Investment Cards Go Up, Oh wait or does it it ? Especially if you send it to to Privileged AH’’s better yet one that was bought out by the same IG that grades the cards!!!

I don’t begrudge anyone who sends their cards to Goldin or PWCC they market the hell out of their brand and service. It’s all tied in the Money is being made by the big players we are just along for the ride. I’ll say it again Not Every Investment Always Goes Up. Once the big guys find another way to make more money they will move on.

If it all wasn't built on the back of altered cards, it wouldn't bother me nearly so much.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If it all wasn't built on the back of altered cards, it wouldn't bother me nearly so much.

That’s the worst part Peter, I agree with you.

Wait wouldn’t Nat and his Company Say our Experts Reviewed the Card and Deem it as Authentic Original Unaltered and Properly Graded?

Or the PWCC Guy Aka Mr Conservation/Restoration

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

That’s the worst part Peter, I agree with you.

Wait wouldn’t Nat and his Company Say our Experts Reviewed the Card and Deem it as Authentic Original Unaltered and Properly Graded?

Or the PWCC Guy Aka Mr Conservation/Restoration

When someone else controls the horizontal and the vertical, it's hard to adjust your TV set. Outer Limits opening for those not ancient.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When someone else controls the horizontal and the vertical, it's hard to adjust your TV set. Outer Limits opening for those not ancient.

To me, it’s more like a Twilight Zone. Especially the episode titled “The Obsolete Man”. PSA is “The State” with their conformist hypnotized masses going after the small guy who refuses to comply with the “emperor’s clothes” mentality.

The independent Collector is personified in Burgess Meredith, who has to brilliantly outwit and out-maneuver the “leader” who seemingly possesses all control.

Perhaps 1% of the forum will follow/appreciate this. But still had to write it, as it’s a perfect analogy.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by perezfan

To me, it’s more like a Twilight Zone. Especially the episode titled “The Obsolete Man”. PSA is “The State” with their conformist hypnotized masses going after the small guy who refuses to comply with the “emperor’s clothes” mentality.

The independent Collector is personified in Burgess Meredith, who has to brilliantly outwit and out-maneuver the “leader” who seemingly possesses all control.

Perhaps 1% of the forum will follow/appreciate this. But still had to write it, as it’s a perfect analogy.

Spot on!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

To me, it’s more like a Twilight Zone. Especially the episode titled “The Obsolete Man”. PSA is “The State” with their conformist hypnotized masses going after the small guy who refuses to comply with the “emperor’s clothes” mentality.

The independent Collector is personified in Burgess Meredith, who has to brilliantly outwit and out-maneuver the “leader” who seemingly possesses all control.

Perhaps 1% of the forum will follow/appreciate this. But still had to write it, as it’s a perfect analogy.

Or maybe the episode where Mickey Rooney plays a jockey who desperately wishes to become big because he thinks that will get him respect, only to realize once his wish is granted the horror of it.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Or maybe the episode where Mickey Rooney plays a jockey who desperately wishes to become big because he thinks that will get him respect, only to realize once his wish is granted the horror of it.

Fantastic comparison from a different angle!

[frankbmd]

Atlas Shrugged

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Atlas Shrugged

Nice Rand-om comment.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nice Rand-om comment.

Rand omnipotent

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Fantastic comparison from a different angle!

One of his best opening narrations.

The name is Grady, five feet short in stockings and boots, a slightly distorted offshoot of a good breed of humans who race horses. He happens to be one of the rotten apples, bruised and yellowed by dealing in dirt, a short man with a short memory who's forgotten that he's worked for the sport of kings and helped turn it into a cesspool, used and misused by the two-legged animals who've hung around sporting events since the days of the Coliseum. So this is Grady, on his last night as a jockey. Behind him are Hialeah, Hollywood Park and Saratoga. Rounding the far turn and coming up fast on the rail is the Twilight Zone.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One of his best opening narrations.

The name is Grady, five feet short in stockings and boots, a slightly distorted offshoot of a good breed of humans who race horses. He happens to be one of the rotten apples, bruised and yellowed by dealing in dirt, a short man with a short memory who's forgotten that he's worked for the sport of kings and helped turn it into a cesspool, used and misused by the two-legged animals who've hung around sporting events since the days of the Coliseum. So this is Grady, on his last night as a jockey. Behind him are Hialeah, Hollywood Park and Saratoga. Rounding the far turn and coming up fast on the rail is the Twilight Zone.

Did A Rod-read-dis?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Rand omnipotent

Name that tune.

I been Ayn Randed, nearly branded
Communist, ‘cause I’m left-handed
That’s the hand I use, well never mind!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by perezfan

To me, it’s more like a Twilight Zone. Especially the episode titled “The Obsolete Man”. PSA is “The State” with their conformist hypnotized masses going after the small guy who refuses to comply with the “emperor’s clothes” mentality.

The independent Collector is personified in Burgess Meredith, who has to brilliantly outwit and out-maneuver the “leader” who seemingly possesses all control.

Perhaps 1% of the forum will follow/appreciate this. But still had to write it, as it’s a perfect analogy.

Was that the episode where Burgess Meredith breaks his glasses on the library steps and is immediately hired by PSA?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Name that tune.

I been Ayn Randed, nearly branded
Communist, ‘cause I’m left-handed
That’s the hand I use, well never mind!

Simon says Paul

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Was that the episode where Burgess Meredith breaks his glasses on the library steps and is immediately hired by PSA?

I believe that’s from “Twilight Zone: Lost Episodes.”

Crime Enough at Last

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I believe that’s from “Twilight Zone: Lost Episodes.”

Crime Enough at Last

Well done… that would certainly make for an entertaining episode.

Burgess Meredith starred in 3 TZ episodes… all excellent.

The Obsolete Man, referenced earlier
Time Enough At Last, with the Broken Glasses
Mr. Dingle, the Strong… a rare comedic episode in which a two-headed alien gives the feeble and pathetic lead-character superhuman strength… only to see him abuse, misuse, and ultimately lose it.

Sorry to derail the thread…
Back to our regularly scheduled corruption of the day.