Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

I don’t collect college pennants but have to say, this is one awesome looking pennant ...

[ooo-ribay]

From ebay...is this legit? I've never seen a pennant like it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

From ebay...is this legit? I've never seen a pennant like it.

Yes I think so .... this is a very very strange pennant though. It matches the Phillies 1950 WS pennant but this one, for whatever reason, feels like it was made from cotton balls. Very very frail. I’ve seen a few of these in person and they were all alike. Now maybe that means they are older repros from someone who tried to recreate the old felt? I kinda doubt it. But this graphic is only seen elsewhere on Phillies pennants ... the 1950 pennant below is a much thicker, sturdier (but still soft) felt.

[ooo-ribay]

As usual, Greg is “on it”!

Yankees example is beyond rough.

[AstroJake09]

I've thought that an old school pennant might be nice for my apartment at CU and wanted opinions on these two pennants. I think both have nice patina and are definetly a throwback to a bygone era but was wondering exactly how old they are... 20s or 30s? Perhaps older?

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

From ebay...is this legit? I've never seen a pennant like it.

Here is what mine looks like. The camera phone makes it appear a little more vibrant than it is. I’ve always felt it’s legit.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by AstroJake09

I've thought that an old school pennant might be nice for my apartment at CU and wanted opinions on these two pennants. I think both have nice patina and are definetly a throwback to a bygone era but was wondering exactly how old they are... 20s or 30s? Perhaps older?

Jake:

The second pennant appears to be the older of the two. It features a really thin, micro-spine that was more common in the 1910s and 20s. Additionally, it features what manufacturers dubbed "Applied Felt Lettering." Typically, these letters were hand cut and sewed, one by one, to the pennant. This took a lot of time. To reduce this production cost, some makers began gluing these letters to the felt with rubber cement. It appears that's what this maker did. I've seen vintage ads from the late 1910s and 20s offering this type of lettering, so I'd feel comfortable assessing this second pennant to be from that era.

The first one's a tougher call. The spine and dimensions appear more contemporary. This one was screen printed, so it could be as old as the 1910s; but, I can't rule out the the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, either. It appears newer than the other. If the length exceeds 30", then you have a better case that it's older. Most likely it's from closer to the 1940s.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Here is what mine looks like. The camera phone makes it appear a little more vibrant than it is. I’ve always felt it’s legit.

This is a very nice example, Erik ... in fact I haven’t seen it in such nice condition.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yes I think so .... this is a very very strange pennant though. It matches the Phillies 1950 WS pennant but this one, for whatever reason, feels like it was made from cotton balls. Very very frail. I’ve seen a few of these in person and they were all alike. Now maybe that means they are older repros from someone who tried to recreate the old felt? I kinda doubt it. But this graphic is only seen elsewhere on Phillies pennants ... the 1950 pennant below is a much thicker, sturdier (but still soft) felt.

I’ll add another thing, the date by the tip suggests Trench, the font is identical. But little else about the pennant matches. Could have been a local production just for the series.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I’ll add another thing, the date by the tip suggests Trench, the font is identical. But little else about the pennant matches. Could have been a local production just for the series.

Greg: Was that image of the Phillie runner sliding into home, with "Phillies" + horizontal bat beneath a graphic developed and used by the team; or was this developed by the pennant maker? I was always under the impression this was an official Phillies logo that the pennant maker was copying....

But, the fact that the same artwork was used for this Yankees pennant suggests otherwise, doesn't it?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Greg: Was that image of the Phillie runner sliding into home, with "Phillies" + horizontal bat beneath a graphic developed and used by the team; or was this developed by the pennant maker? I was always under the impression this was an official Phillies logo that the pennant maker was copying....

But, the fact that the same artwork was used for this Yankees pennant suggests otherwise, doesn't it?

Interesting question. As you likely know there was a time in the 1940s when the Phillies considered a name change, but did it in a weird way. Tried to gradually turn it over to Blue Jays. So for pennants, scorecards, even uniforms, the jay graphic began to appear. It never fully took so the plug was pulled in 1949. This is when “Fightin Phillies” took root. It seems the phrase had already been used as far back as ‘46 but my guess is that it took off when the blue jay was buried. The team used the script and bat part of the design as if it was an official logo, here are some scorecards that display it, one from 1949 and the other from 1951. (I don’t collect scorecards, these were images I found.)

I can’t say that I’ve ever seen the catcher/runner graphic anywhere else but on pennants. And there’s a good reason for that ... the team never really had a nice logo until the “fat P” was introduced in 1970. (My personal favorite were Phil and Phyllis from the bicentennial season.) They probably had nothing else to use! Eventually they moved to that dull graphic of a Phillies cap with stars orbiting it.

As for these scorecards ... recognize anything else?

[ser1979]

So I recently moved and decided to start taking photos of all my pennants to catalog them. I see a lot of members post links to their pennants and was wondering how to go about doing that. I'd like to be able to share my collection with the group. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ser1979

So I recently moved and decided to start taking photos of all my pennants to catalog them. I see a lot of members post links to their pennants and was wondering how to go about doing that. I'd like to be able to share my collection with the group. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Go to google and click that checker board in the upper right corner. A menu of icons will appear...find and click "photos". A screen like the one attached here will appear. Click "albums", then "create album" and you will be prompted to upload pics. Easy as 1, 2, 3.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

From ebay...is this legit? I've never seen a pennant like it.

Rob,
I would like to see this closer as it does look like the graphics are in extraordinarily great shape compared to the tip. This particular pennant was made of “the most” fragile felt I have ever dealt with and it is very prone to pulling away at the tip like this one shows. Like Erik showed on his example, usually the graphics are a little stressed and not so bright. I currently have one like this for sale and although I wouldn’t call it rare, it is tough to find in great shape. Unless it can be had cheap, probably worth steering clear from.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ser1979

So I recently moved and decided to start taking photos of all my pennants to catalog them. I see a lot of members post links to their pennants and was wondering how to go about doing that. I'd like to be able to share my collection with the group. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

As “the other Rob” said, it’s super easy....drag and drop....once you have them all in album, you can drag to rearrange if you wish.

[bocca001]

Agree that google photos is pretty easy once you get going. Looking forward to seeing your pennant photo album(s).

[thetahat]

I’m probably the only person on Earth who cares about this but here are two cloth ASCO pennants with a 1970 MLB trademark.

Interesting how the ‘69s are much more common and the only date trademarked NFLs are from ‘67.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting question. As you likely know there was a time in the 1940s when the Phillies considered a name change, but did it in a weird way. Tried to gradually turn it over to Blue Jays. So for pennants, scorecards, even uniforms, the jay graphic began to appear. It never fully took so the plug was pulled in 1949. This is when “Fightin Phillies” took root. It seems the phrase had already been used as far back as ‘46 but my guess is that it took off when the blue jay was buried. The team used the script and bat part of the design as if it was an official logo, here are some scorecards that display it, one from 1949 and the other from 1951. (I don’t collect scorecards, these were images I found.)

I can’t say that I’ve ever seen the catcher/runner graphic anywhere else but on pennants. And there’s a good reason for that ... the team never really had a nice logo until the “fat P” was introduced in 1970. (My personal favorite were Phil and Phyllis from the bicentennial season.) They probably had nothing else to use! Eventually they moved to that dull graphic of a Phillies cap with stars orbiting it.

As for these scorecards ... recognize anything else?

AH-HA! That image of the Phillie leaning on his bat ... that was used (stolen?) by Keezer for use on one of their two known Phillies pennants.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting question. As you likely know there was a time in the 1940s when the Phillies considered a name change, but did it in a weird way. Tried to gradually turn it over to Blue Jays. So for pennants, scorecards, even uniforms, the jay graphic began to appear. It never fully took so the plug was pulled in 1949. This is when “Fightin Phillies” took root. It seems the phrase had already been used as far back as ‘46 but my guess is that it took off when the blue jay was buried. The team used the script and bat part of the design as if it was an official logo, here are some scorecards that display it, one from 1949 and the other from 1951. (I don’t collect scorecards, these were images I found.)

If we use scorecards as a guide, they were using a Blue Jay in at least 1945 and 1947 (see scans), and they became the "Fightin' Phillies" for 1948.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I’m probably the only person on Earth who cares about this but here are two cloth ASCO pennants with a 1970 MLB trademark.

Interesting how the ‘69s are much more common and the only date trademarked NFLs are from ‘67.

Believe it or not...this stuff fascinates me too. I'd love a guide that showed the dates and chronological order of the various league trademarks. Anyone ever see one?

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Rob,
I would like to see this closer as it does look like the graphics are in extraordinarily great shape compared to the tip. This particular pennant was made of “the most” fragile felt I have ever dealt with and it is very prone to pulling away at the tip like this one shows. Like Erik showed on his example, usually the graphics are a little stressed and not so bright. I currently have one like this for sale and although I wouldn’t call it rare, it is tough to find in great shape. Unless it can be had cheap, probably worth steering clear from.

I agree with the previous comments on the fabric being extremely delicate. I was reluctant to iron the backside of the pennat as it was unclear if the fabric would disitigrate! Although I cannot recall specifically, I felt like I owned an old Keezer Red Sox pennant from the 40's (white 'felt') that was similar in material - but perhaps a little more sturdy.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

AH-HA! That image of the Phillie leaning on his bat ... that was used (stolen?) by Keezer for use on one of their two known Phillies pennants.

Yessir and it’s a great graphic, has a cool dated look to it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Believe it or not...this stuff fascinates me too. I'd love a guide that showed the dates and chronological order of the various league trademarks. Anyone ever see one?

I still have the idea of putting together a guide that groups pennants by type/style/company. So the trademarked lots would fit right in. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a price guide, in fact I have my issues with the existing one (although in fairness the prices can be little more than educated guesses). I do like it for the pics.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

If we use scorecards as a guide, they were using a Blue Jay in at least 1945 and 1947 (see scans), and they became the "Fightin' Phillies" for 1948.

I may have posted this before but this details the history of the Phillies “blue jay”:

https://www.toddradom.com/blog/sport...e-jaysphillies

[thetahat]

So I have come to the unwise decision to fill in gaps on my walls with mini pennants, which I never really collected. I only have a few. Even made little holders out of the vinyl roll I bought. Anyone know of a guy who deals heavy with minis? Please DM me if so. I’d rather try to get batches on discount and not get creamed by shipping.

[thetahat]

I should add, my other unfulfilled dream is to “wallpaper” an entire room with 1975 Topps ....

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I still have the idea of putting together a guide that groups pennants by type/style/company. So the trademarked lots would fit right in. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a price guide, in fact I have my issues with the existing one (although in fairness the prices can be little more than educated guesses). I do like it for the pics.

I love this idea. I’ve talked to FB Rob and Mark about this a little before. The idea of having attributes for each pennant photo as suggested (e.g. year estimate, company, team, style, color, trademark, rarity, etc.) and other corresponding info such as the photos of the pennants at an event (as people have been sharing) and / or advertisements. Collectively, we could have a very comprehensive guide and build on the great work Egner and others have done.

Plus, if the data are structured correctly, I assume the attributes could be used to filter, sort, group... idk, just thinking out loud.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

I love this idea. I’ve talked to FB Rob and Mark about this a little before. The idea of having attributes for each pennant photo as suggested (e.g. year estimate, company, team, style, color, trademark, rarity, etc.) and other corresponding info such as the photos of the pennants at an event (as people have been sharing) and / or advertisements. Collectively, we could have a very comprehensive guide and build on the great work Egner and others have done.

Plus, if the data are structured correctly, I assume the attributes could be used to filter, sort, group... idk, just thinking out loud.

I’d be in on this! Of course Domer has already done GREAT work on his blog ... identifying companies such as WGN, ASCO, Keezer, etc. For some we may have to guess, but can still group by obvious similarities.

[bocca001]

Fballguy and I had a few beers in Houston last night and he made these pennants (and a few others) available to me. All very rare. Excited to add them to my collection.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Fballguy and I had a few beers in Houston last night and he made these pennants (and a few others) available to me. All very rare. Excited to add them to my collection.

Had a great time! And the beers softened the blow of saying goodbye to these babies. They'll look great on your walls Marc!

[ser1979]

Thanks for all the help with getting google photos set up. It really was as easy as 1,2,3, lol. Now the million dollar question... how do I share it with the group so everyone can see it?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

[perezfan]

Great stuff Marc...

I’ve been trying forever to find that last 49ers Pennant. Both of those are so rare! Good thing you Guys live close together, to avoid the P.O. right now!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ser1979

Thanks for all the help with getting google photos set up. It really was as easy as 1,2,3, lol. Now the million dollar question... how do I share it with the group so everyone can see it?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

In your album, click the icon circled below. You'll then see an option to "copy link". Just copy it and paste it into your message here.

[Fballguy]

I should've mentioned in my earlier post...I am "culling my herd" of pennants a little (primarily baseball). If anyone sees any that pique their interest, let me know. Would rather see them go to the diehards here than people I don't know.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bjo3f2rMmVZqQWBM9

[ser1979]

Well here goes...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uqhaq2p9CZdjTqNM7

Fballguy,

I'm interested in your 1940 tiger pennant.

Always looking for variations, upgrades or any Tiger pennants that I need for me collection.

[bocca001]

Nice Tigers collection!

I really like the very 70s Mark Fidrych pennant.

[Bumpus Jones]

Emailed and messaged you Rob.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ser1979

Well here goes...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uqhaq2p9CZdjTqNM7

Great stuff, Stephen!

[perezfan]

Yes... very nice Tigers collection, Stephen!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Fballguy and I had a few beers in Houston last night and he made these pennants (and a few others) available to me. All very rare. Excited to add them to my collection.

Those must have lightened your wallet a bit!

[bocca001]

Money well spent. And it saved me from the dilemma I was having about whether or not to bid on this pennant with some pros (rare, good graphics) and cons (tip, tear, damaged tassel, and two spines?). I didn't bid. It sold for north of $500.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Money well spent. And it saved me from the dilemma I was having about whether or not to bid on this pennant with some pros (rare, good graphics) and cons (tip, tear, damaged tassel, and two spines?). I didn't bid. It sold for north of $500.

Does anyone know of another dated Giants or Yankees pennant from 1951?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Does anyone know of another dated Giants or Yankees pennant from 1951?

I do not. But luckily I found my Cinderella Boys in NRMT condition for under $300. One of the rare times I didn’t overpay.

[bocca001]

Now that I own one, I'm curious to hear more about what anyone knows about the "Champions" grommet pennants. Greg has some and we have talked about this a bit. Based on my understanding, there are similar style St. Louis Cardinals and Browns pennants with a 1939 date and "Champions" pennants dating back to at least 1919 (I think). But no Champions pennants with dates later than 1939.

Does anyone know if each of these champions pennants has more than one known copy? Or is each unique?

I also wondered if they were not somehow tied to the 1939 baseball centennial. Perhaps they were part of a display somewhere? Maybe in St. Louis given the Cardinals and Browns pennants with the 1939 date.

If you have one or have a picture of one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I hear that there is a 1919 Black Sox version somewhere. Anyone have a picture of it?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Now that I own one, I'm curious to hear more about what anyone knows about the "Champions" grommet pennants. Greg has some and we have talked about this a bit. Based on my understanding, there are similar style St. Louis Cardinals and Browns pennants with a 1939 date and "Champions" pennants dating back to at least 1919 (I think). But no Championsh pennants with dates later than 1939.

Does anyone know if each of these champions pennants has more than one known copy? Or is each unique?

I also wondered if they were not somehow tied to the 1939 baseball centennial. Perhaps they were part of a display somewhere? Maybe in St. Louis given the Cardinals and Browns pennants with the 1939 date.

If you have one or have a picture of one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I hear that there is a 1919 Black Sox version somewhere. Anyone have a picture of it?

It was in Halper. If you have access to a Sotheby's Catalogue, you can easily find it. Or perhaps there is an on-line version of the Halper Catalogue that can be linked here?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Now that I own one, I'm curious to hear more about what anyone knows about the "Champions" grommet pennants. Greg has some and we have talked about this a bit. Based on my understanding, there are similar style St. Louis Cardinals and Browns pennants with a 1939 date and "Champions" pennants dating back to at least 1919 (I think). But no Championsh pennants with dates later than 1939.

Does anyone know if each of these champions pennants has more than one known copy? Or is each unique?

I also wondered if they were not somehow tied to the 1939 baseball centennial. Perhaps they were part of a display somewhere? Maybe in St. Louis given the Cardinals and Browns pennants with the 1939 date.

If you have one or have a picture of one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I hear that there is a 1919 Black Sox version somewhere. Anyone have a picture of it?

Here is my counterpart to your Giants... 1936 Yankees. Please excuse the camera flash and sideways image.

Never seen another...

[Fballguy]

WOW...That's beautiful Mark.

[MK]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Now that I own one, I'm curious to hear more about what anyone knows about the "Champions" grommet pennants. Greg has some and we have talked about this a bit. Based on my understanding, there are similar style St. Louis Cardinals and Browns pennants with a 1939 date and "Champions" pennants dating back to at least 1919 (I think). But no Champions pennants with dates later than 1939.

Does anyone know if each of these champions pennants has more than one known copy? Or is each unique?

I also wondered if they were not somehow tied to the 1939 baseball centennial. Perhaps they were part of a display somewhere? Maybe in St. Louis given the Cardinals and Browns pennants with the 1939 date.

If you have one or have a picture of one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I hear that there is a 1919 Black Sox version somewhere. Anyone have a picture of it?

Here’s a photo of the Halper version.

[bocca001]

Thanks Mike and Mark. Mark- yours looks brand new. Does anyone know how much the Black Sox pennant sold for?

[thetahat]

You’ve all seen this before but here’s the 1920 Dodgers.

Also, Marc, I do recall a 1938 dated team pennant for the Cardinals ... It’s in the Egner guide.