Does The National Still Happen This Year?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

uhh.. anyone who has already died cannot be surprised about anything...

Yes, the dying can be surprised, the dead probably cannot be surprised. Believe that's how it works.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes, the dying can be surprised, the dead probably cannot be surprised. Believe that's how it works.

And anyone actually "dying" is not concerned with any political garbage whatsoever...

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

uhh.. anyone who has already died cannot be surprised about anything...

..uhhhh , obviously it's been a while since you've last read " The Search For Bridey Murphy" ??

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..uhhhh , obviously it's been a while since you've last read " The Search For Bridey Murphy" ??

Sorry, I'm interested in things more credible and believable like werewolves, Thor, a flat earth, the Abominable Snowman and an honest media

[Republicaninmass]

Come November, there will be a "rhino" virus more contagious than "swine " flu

[mrvster]

hoping so!!

social distance me some T206

[Gnep31]

The show should go on IMO...

Make masks and social distancing mandatory to appease those who are scared.

There are a bunch of steps that can be taken:

-Limit the amount of touching cards from dealers and attendees...
...unless you want to disinfect them after each time
-Don't do the autograph sessions
-Do pre-sell tix only
-Limit the amount of attendees per day to an agreed upon %
-Have time slots for attendees
-Space out the aisles and tables
-Take everyone's temp before they can enter

Welcome those who want to come and follow the rules. For those who are afraid we will see you when you have been vaccinated.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

In your list of conditions and ideas you don't address how on earth the promoter could possibly make a profit. That (and possibly the state not allowing it) are the real reasons it won't happen.

[perezfan]

It ain't gonna happen. Too much potential liability and a terrible location during a dreadful time of year. Most collectors would take a pass, as would any potential autograph signers.

All the more reason to enjoy Chicago in 2021.

[Gnep31]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It ain't gonna happen. Too much potential liability and a terrible location during a dreadful time of year. Most collectors would take a pass, as would any potential autograph signers.

All the more reason to enjoy Chicago in 2021.

How could it be proven that someone was exposed at the show and not elsewhere? If people are not forced to attend, then how could the show be liable for someone getting any type of illness...a common cold, the flu etc?

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by Phil68

It's entirely possible that, after the elections in November, the virus will magically just "disappear"...

That sounds great. I'll tell my friend who lost his 55 year old father to COVID over the weekend and the lady I go to church with whose mother died.

[1880nonsports]

you can't fix stupid...

[Shoeless Moe]

I drove past a Farmer's Market in the downtown of a small-medium city, about half the size of a football field was the festival.

Guessing it will be the same time every week. Everyone had their masks on, buying stuff from vendors.

Wouldn't be much different, a card show that is.

Hey have it outside in December......wind picks up, maybe a '52 Mantle blows into your hands, then you run like the wind!

[Directly]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I expect the National to be cancelled for 2020 and to resume in 2021 in Chicago, 2022 in Cleveland, etc,...

Hopefully a vaccine will be available by next year, we are looking forward attending the National in 2021 if still scheduled in Chicago?

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

In your list of conditions and ideas you don't address how on earth the promoter could possibly make a profit. That (and possibly the state not allowing it) are the real reasons it won't happen.

Bingo, I agree totally. I know there are a lot of east coast dealers than could fill tables, but I don't expect it to happen because of what Scott has pointed out. Hard enough to have a good show without so many restrictions and regs. People don't want to wait outside for their "turn".

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

That sounds great. I'll tell my friend who lost his 55 year old father to COVID over the weekend and the lady I go to church with whose mother died.

Sheesh Todd, that is terrible. All the 70 year olds that I know that got it recouped their health at home with little to no lasting effects. Another 50 year old did fine, though she quarantined from her family and employees for the required length of time. Hopefully it will end soon, but I'm wearing my mask at all shows as a best practice.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Directly

Hopefully a vaccine will be available by next year, we are looking forward attending the National in 2021 if still scheduled in Chicago?

Somebody will get rich off that vaccine. Not me unfortunately, but I do sleep well at night.

[cannonballsun]

There was a show in this area, I believe it was May 30th. I didn't go, but the show did happen.
There's another show scheduled. I think It might be today.
Like a lot of us, I've lost track of the day of the week. Today is Friday. The show will be tomorrow, Saturday. Once again, I'll pass.
Hopefully things will be looking better by the time the next one comes up.

[Jewish-collector]

I did hear that small Arthur Slade show south of Baltimore did happen, but it was moved from the school cafeteria (where it's normally held) to an outside flea market and there were only 10 sellers and everyone wore masks.

The best part of the National is seeing Rich K (Hi Rich) and asking him how the hell he's doing

[1952boyntoncollector]

how you going to bring old retired baseball players in person to risk their lives for 25 dollar autos..

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

With people dying across the country, with schooling being made virtual, with teams playing to empty stadiums, if at all, how can anyone be thinking about a baseball card show? If there is a vaccine by then,then that changes my thinking, but otherwise I hope the National is cancelled, if for nothing else than to save the idiots who might attend from themselves.

I don't know Jay. I've seen people put up with a lot of sh*t in this hobby for little pieces of cardboard and not bat an eye. Just another thing. T-I-C, kinda

No way in hell would I go for free.

[Exhibitman]

Let's all hope for a party in 2021 Chicago-style!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Let's all hope for a party in 2021 Chicago-style!

+1 Planning on it. Might even have to do another Net54 dinner...not sure yet....

.

[tedzan]

Wasn't this the week of National ?

Yesterday, and in particular today, was a real disaster in Atlantic City. This tropical storm hit the South Jersey shore with a vengeance.
It dumped up to 6 inches of rain in the area. The surrounding streets and highways look like "Venice" (you need a gondola to navigate
them). Plus, just south of A/C was a good size tornado. Power is out in several towns in Atlantic and Cape May counties.


TED Z
.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Wasn't this the week of National ?

Yesterday, and in particular today, was a real disaster in Atlantic City. This tropical storm hit the South Jersey shore with a vengeance.
It dumped up to 6 inches of rain in the area. The surrounding streets and highways look like "Venice" (you need a gondola to navigate
them). Plus, just south of A/C was a good size tornado. Power is out in several towns in Atlantic and Cape May counties.


TED Z
.

Ted,

I believe, under normal circumstances, the National was supposed to run from the 29th to the 2nd. So it would have just missed lining up with this hurricane. Scary stuff to say the least, I've seen a few over turned semi's, a few houses damaged by fallen trees. South Jersey seems to have been hit the worst by it.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Seven

Ted,

I believe, under normal circumstances, the National was supposed to run from the 29th to the 2nd. So it would have just missed lining up with this hurricane. Scary stuff to say the least, I've seen a few over turned semi's, a few houses damaged by fallen trees. South Jersey seems to have been hit the worst by it.

Bucks Co PA (just north of Philly) got hit pretty bad in spots. Daycare in Doylestown:

[Pre War Starter]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Then what happened? Historically, Anaheim has hosted many of the largest-attended shows ever on record. I bet San Diego, Las Vegas or a hub like Denver would do even better.

The existing ownership group has not given it their best effort. Survey the people here, and you'll probably have less than 15% say that Atlantic City is an accessible (or even acceptable) venue.

Once every 3 or 4 years West of the Mississippi is not asking a lot.

1000% agree.
Also would like to add/suggest, how many west coast dealers don’t go East currently?
Wouldn’t having a show on the West coast bring in new dealers? Ones that never make the voyage East because it’s too far.

[nineunder71]

Going forward, I would love to see the National come west, even just ONCE would be cool...

Thought about going when it was in Chicago a few years ago, but didn’t make it.

Further, I would never consider going to Atlantic City, it’s one of the most ghetto places I’ve ever been, AND I LIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE, haha. I spent two weeks there working as a first responder after Hurricane Sandy, no thanks! Strongly agree: Not easily accessible and far less Acceptable

[buymycards]

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

[Snapolit1]

Why not an East Coast / Midwest National every spring and a West Coast National every Fall? Hobby has never been more popular. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Originally Posted by buymycards

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

[rats60]

There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by rats60

There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

The East Coast National is really just the name the promoter uses for the White Plains show immediately after the national. It is no where near the size or scope of the national. It just has an extra day or two added and maybe 5-10 more dealers squeezed along the walls.

[Exhibitman]

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

[Sportsnutcards]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

There actually is way more than 288 dealers who do the national. Many dealers share booths with others and just one name is on the booth itself for registration and priority purposes. I think last year in Chicago and this current year, there are 600 total booths sold and probably 400-450 different dealers. This seems like the average number since maybe the 2008 National, which was the last time they used the side room for regular dealers. I don’t think the show moves back west until there are other major successful shows to prove that it would be worthwhile.
-Ted

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

T

Could be way worse though:

I'm pretty sure we could buy that "venue" in Detroit for roughly 2 Poorly Graded 33 Ruth's

[notfast]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

The issue is that the National requires you to set up each year or lose your “tenure.” Not sure if they allow for a year of opting out but if they did not, you’d have 124 upset East Coast dealers if there was a West Coast show.

I’d be willing to bet 90% of those 124 wouldn’t even consider the West Coast...Mainly because a large portion of them have “larger” set ups they’ve been operating with for 20+ years. The logistics of traveling 3000 miles isn’t even reasonable.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

Detroit jokes! Always fresh, funny, and original.

[Michael B]

All of the handwringing about The National going the west coast does not accomplish much unless there is a bloc of western dealers who can get together and come up with a plan. If a group of heavy hitters got together and ambushed The National you may get a reaction. You have a large card convention 3 weeks to a month prior to the National or a week or two later. Too early and you are tap dancing around the Fourth of July holiday and virtual (for now) school ending. If you have it shortly thereafter you may be able to tempt the west coast collectors who bite the bullet and begrudingly travel to Chicago or Cleveland. The appeal of a show that they can drive to within a few hours with more money in their pocket may sway quite a few. Southern California may be good. I am not too familiar with the convention centers down there other than Long Beach which is relatively small, but cheap close parking. People keep mentioning Las Vegas. Yes, they have a few convention spaces. I recall going to the one in the Venetian, I believe, for the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Show and it was a good size. There are always lots of hotel rooms except possibly during the CES (Consumer Electronics Show). The big issue, big as an elephant's butt, is the heat during the summer. Certainly you can move easily between some of the casinos with the monorail. However if you want to step outside and are not used to the heat it will be tough to take. Other cities may work like Phoenix or Denver. San Franciso too expensive overall. I view Dallas as no better than Chicago. It is really not west. It is more south central. If a dealer would not travel to Chicago why would he want to drive the 10 across AZ and NM and the 20 through most of Texas in constant 90º+ weather? Just some thoughts to ponder.

[SAllen2556]

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Cobo.waterfront-1bsml-d9b6c93e22-70041e012a.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

Surely we will get a harsh rejoinder from all the upstanding 1960 used car salespersons who collect sportscards

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

This is hilarious!

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by notfast

The issue is that the National requires you to set up each year or lose your “tenure.” Not sure if they allow for a year of opting out but if they did not, you’d have 124 upset East Coast dealers if there was a West Coast show.

I’d be willing to bet 90% of those 124 wouldn’t even consider the West Coast...Mainly because a large portion of them have “larger” set ups they’ve been operating with for 20+ years. The logistics of traveling 3000 miles isn’t even reasonable.

The tenure is part of the problem. When you walk into the National, the first thing you see is a bunch of dealers with 1980's products at 1980's prices. The tenure is what keeps new dealers from being able to set up.

I want to be clear. I love the National, but it could be so much better.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

This is hilarious!

Should show 1989 donruss/ Topps littered and in junk piles around the buliding

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Attachment 412700

I can appreciate bristling at the tired comments about Detroit. Just as stale as 'Mistake by the Lake' Cleveland. Since Detroit is 300 miles East of Chicago and 160 miles Northwest of Cleveland it is a moot point. It is still 'in the east'.

[ocjack]

I recall back in the early days when there were shows on the West Coast, it was almost impossible for new dealers to reserve a spot due to all of the tenured dealers. I knew before I arrived, which dealers I would always see front and center at the entrance. And which dealers I would find buried way in the back. I was able to set-up by sharing a table with a lower-level tenured dealer - so we were in the back. We would know that once the doors opened it would take a good 30-45 minutes before we would start seeing convention-goers. Once they started adding corporate booths, the back of the show was a wasteland.

Tenure is a nice perk for loyalty, but it also acts as a negative to allowing new dealers to showcase their wares. Maybe some form of lottery for the tenured dealers allowing perhaps 70% of them to reserve tables and a randomized drawing for table location.

Bottom line, maybe this is the year to rethink how they have run the National up to now and perhaps new ideas and locations should be considered by a new group of individuals willing to take on the burdens/rewards of holding such an event. Monopolies are never a good thing. After all, if I'm not mistaken, the National began on the West Coast and is the location of most all of the larger-attended shows. And dealers from other areas of the country were more than happy to attend.

Just my 5 cents.

[Duluth Eskimo]

The intent of it moving around used to be to keep it fresh and not the same people with the same stuff over and over again. The peak of the hobby was when the show was still touring the west coast. I live in MN, but if I lived on the west coast I’d be pissed at this east of the Mississippi rotation. The mgmt could care less about dealers and are mostly concerned with driving around on their golf carts acting like big shots. The biggest shows they had were west coast and (although I don’t like them) PSA is in southern Cal. I flew to those nationals back in the day and I would again. I’d much rather take a vacation to southern Cal than Detroit, Cleveland, AC or some other place where the committee and can rent for basically free or close to it. To not have it rotate through California or Las Vegas is absolutely ridiculous. Ok, back to talking about how great Baltimore, Cleveland, and AC are along with how great he committee is for dealers.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ocjack

After all, if I'm not mistaken, the National began on the West Coast and is the location of most all of the larger-attended shows. And dealers from other areas of the country were more than happy to attend.

I don't remember if there was a National in 1980.

I definitely recall that the following Nationals were as followed.....

1981 Detroit

1982 St. Louis

1983 Chicago

1984 New Jersey

I missed the one in Detroit, but was at the St. Louis, Chicago, and NJ shows.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I don't remember if there was a National in 1980.

I definitely recall that the following Nationals were as followed.....

1981 Detroit

1982 St. Louis

1983 Chicago

1984 New Jersey

I missed the one in Detroit, but was at the St. Louis, Chicago, and NJ shows.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

\

1980 was the 1st National, Labor Day Weekend in the LA Area IIRC

[brianp-beme]

Posting this from Wiki (because Wiki knows all, and is going to tell your mama on you)

1980 Los Angeles, California Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel (First NSCC Show)
1981 Detroit, Michigan Plymouth Hilton
1982 St. Louis, Missouri
1983 Chicago, Illinois Holiday Inn, O'Hare Airport
1984 Parsippany, New Jersey Aspen Hotel
1985 Anaheim, California Disneyland Hotel
1986 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center
1987 San Francisco, California Moscone Center
1988 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Hall
1989 Chicago, Illinois Hyatt Regency Hotel
1990 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center (First venue to host two NSCC shows)
1991 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center (Over 100,000 attended, NSCC record)
1992 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center
1993 Chicago, Illinois McCormick Place
1994 Houston, Texas George R. Brown Convention Center
1995 St. Louis, Missouri Cervantes Convention Center
1996 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
1997 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
1998 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
1999 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center (25,000 attended, lowest NSCC attendance since the 1980s)
2000 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2001 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2002 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2003 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2004 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (First three-time NSCC host)
2005 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2006 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2007 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2008 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2009 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2010 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2011 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2012 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2013 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center (First six-time NSCC host)
2014 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Third-highest attendance - over 43,000)
2015 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2016 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2017 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2018 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Approx. 45,000 attendees)
2019 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2020 Ain't gonna happen (my poignant commentary/prediction)

Brian

[packs]

Probably some deals to be had at that 1980 show.