Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Koufax career is very unique in the way it ended. The 4 years of dominance were still very fresh in voters minds when he was elected in his first year. If you flip his career and put those 4 dominant years at the beginning and his bad years at the end, he doesn't sniff the HOF and is the pitchers version of Don Mattingly.

I missed Don Mattingly winning 3 triple crowns, 2 WS MVPs, leading the league in most statistical categories several seasons etc. if Mattingly had been as good as Koufax for a 5-6 year peak, he would have been a first ballot Hofer too. Look at Black Ink, which is a player leading the league in statistical categories. Koufax in his short career has 78 which is almost double what a Hof pitcher has for a career. Mattingly only has 23 which is less than the average a Hof hitter. That is why he is still waiting for the HOF. He just wasn’t that dominant at his peak.

[alaskapaul3]

Can we all at least agree that Ed Morris was the best 19th century lefty ? or is someone going Frank Killen or Matt Kilroy on us ?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by rats60

I missed Don Mattingly winning 3 triple crowns, 2 WS MVPs, leading the league in most statistical categories several seasons etc. if Mattingly had been as good as Koufax for a 5-6 year peak, he would have been a first ballot Hofer too. Look at Black Ink, which is a player leading the league in statistical categories. Koufax in his short career has 78 which is almost double what a Hof pitcher has for a career. Mattingly only has 23 which is less than the average a Hof hitter. That is why he is still waiting for the HOF. He just wasn’t that dominant at his peak.

C’mon man, there is literally no quantifiable metric to suggest Koufax had the greatest left-handed pitching career. You know the pitching triple crown is far more common than the hitting triple crown (more than 2x as common). The Koufax people in this thread have relied on 2 things only... peak performance and anecdotal evidence. Sorry a pitcher that has the same WAR and almost identical innings pitched as Ron Guidry isn’t gonna get the nod.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

C’mon man, there is literally no quantifiable metric to suggest Koufax had the greatest left-handed pitching career. You know the pitching triple crown is far more common than the hitting triple crown (more than 2x as common). The Koufax people in this thread have relied on 2 things only... peak performance and anecdotal evidence. Sorry a pitcher that has the same WAR and almost identical innings pitched as Ron Guidry isn’t gonna get the nod.

Rhett

Thanks.......As a long time Yankees fan, I was thinking of bringing up Ron Guidry, but you did and you said it very succinctly.

I saw Koufax pitch (1955-1966) and I've always considered him one of the best Southpaws. And Guidry is in the same class.

Their career stats are very comparable....Guidry was somewhat more effective in World Series play:

Guidry....Games = 368, W-L = 170-91, ERA = 3.29, World Series W-L = 5-2....WAR = 47.8

Koufax....Games = 397, W-L = 165-87, ERA = 2.76, World Series W-L = 4-3....WAR = 48.9


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Rhett

Thanks.......As a long time Yankees fan, I was thinking of bringing up Ron Guidry, but you did and you said it very succinctly.

I saw Koufax pitch (1955-1966) and I've always considered him one of the best Southpaws. And Guidry is in the same class.

Their career stats are very comparable....Guidry was somewhat more effective in World Series play:

Guidry....Games = 368, W-L = 170-91, ERA = 3.29, World Series W-L = 5-2....WAR = 47.8

Koufax....Games = 397, W-L = 165-87, ERA = 2.76, World Series W-L = 4-3....WAR = 48.9


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted- I do agree about Guidry being a great lefty. Wouldn't you agree that .60 in ERA difference is huge with that amount of work done by both? Also, can you elaborate on the strengths of the Dodgers line-up versus the Ynakees line-up during their careers? Thanks a lot....

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Ted- I do agree about Guidry being a great lefty. Wouldn't you agree that .60 in ERA difference is huge with that amount of work done by both? Also, can you elaborate on the strengths of the Dodgers line-up versus the Ynakees line-up during their careers? Thanks a lot....

Crunching the numbers, you'll see a distinct difference between the 1977 - 1985 total RUNS production for the Yankees vs. the 1961 - 1966 Dodgers total Runs production.
The Yankees 1977 - 1985 scored an average of 781 RUNS per year vs. the 1961 - 1966 Dodgers 674 RUNS per year. Therefore, Ron Guidry could afford to have Half a RUN
higher in his ERA stat and still win games.

Two of his three 20+ games wins were not your typical low ERA......

1978 W-L 25 - 3, ERA = 1.74

1983 W-L 21 - 9, ERA = 3.42

1985 W-L 22 - 6, ERA = 3.27



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[TheBig6]

When I was growing up it was Spahn. I think he belongs in the conversation.