Slightly OT: Could the Braves and Indians be next?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Personally, I think the Redskins should keep their name and just change their logo to a red skin potato.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Personally, I think the Redskins should keep their name and just change their logo to a red skin potato.

Love it. How about Washington Senators or Nationals?

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Love it. How about Washington Senators or Nationals?

I think the Washington Corruptos would be more appropriate in a salute to the governing bodies.

[Case12]

Note 60's logo. I think it's cool and stays with historical team. Washington Warriors'.

[olecow]

All I know is that my all time favorite uniforms in ANY sport are the Boston/Milwaukee Braves unis from the late 40's to the early 60's (gotta have the tomahawk). I wear my Mitchell and Ness Hank Aaron and Eddie Mathews jerseys proudly, and I don't mean to offend anyone. They're just beautiful uniforms.

And the Blackhawks have the best sweater in hockey.

[Case12]

Chief Knock-a-homa. (BTW, he is still alive...and agrees with Redskins name change. But thinks Braves and Indians are fine).

[Case12]

Grew up in Atlanta with this. As a kid, I loved it.

[david_l]

Until some of you experience genocide, cultural annihilation, years of reneged promises and treaties, and overt racism I just don’t think you’ll get it. Here’s hoping for a change though.

[drcy]

I think they should change the names. But that's just my opinion.

I also think they will.

[KMayUSA6060]

As an Indians fan and Northeast Ohio native, I don't understand the push for the name change. I didn't see the need to remove Chief Wahoo, either. I grew up with Chief Wahoo, and thought the color was red because the Indians colors are Red, White, and Blue. I never once associated it with skin color. I've been called a racist for supporting Chief Wahoo/the Indians, but how is it racist when I don't see skin color/race?

With that being said, I'm tired of fighting it. Change the name, I don't give a damn. If it makes someone else sleep better at night because they associate a team name and cartoon with some sort of racism/oppression, let them have that. I will still continue to wear my Indians gear and go to ball games. Of course I'd buy some new gear, too, but I'm not depriving my future kids of baseball because of a team name/logo.

The Cleveland Spiders were the first professional baseball team in Cleveland (not associated with the Cleveland Indians franchise), and that is reportedly an option. Some people want a team name associated with the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (The Cleveland Rocks or something like that). Whatever they do, don't half ass it. Make it badass, and let's move on.

I don't give a flying hoot about the Redskins either. Quite frankly, I don't see a bunch of people traveling to the Dakotas to protest on the behalf of Native Americans. A team name and logo hardly fight for anything substantial. They think it's the way people think that they need to change but it's really the system (I personally don't believe the people in this country are as racist as the media leads us to believe). A team name and logo don't touch the system. But whatever.

Can we play ball already? We need a break from all the BS as a society.

[Natswin2019]

I saw someone mention that they should change the Redskins to the Redwolves because it's the nick name for an elite navy helicopter squadron, you can keep some so of native american thing going cause wolves are important in native culture, wolves are just cool animals, and the defense can have a cool nick name in wolf pack. They could also keep the same color scheme with the red and gold.

Also the Washington Redwolves just sounds really cool

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

As an Indians fan and Northeast Ohio native, I don't understand the push for the name change. I didn't see the need to remove Chief Wahoo, either. I grew up with Chief Wahoo, and thought the color was red because the Indians colors are Red, White, and Blue. I never once associated it with skin color. I've been called a racist for supporting Chief Wahoo/the Indians, but how is it racist when I don't see skin color/race?

With that being said, I'm tired of fighting it. Change the name, I don't give a damn. If it makes someone else sleep better at night because they associate a team name and cartoon with some sort of racism/oppression, let them have that. I will still continue to wear my Indians gear and go to ball games. Of course I'd buy some new gear, too, but I'm not depriving my future kids of baseball because of a team name/logo.

The Cleveland Spiders were the first professional baseball team in Cleveland (not associated with the Cleveland Indians franchise), and that is reportedly an option. Some people want a team name associated with the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (The Cleveland Rocks or something like that). Whatever they do, don't half ass it. Make it badass, and let's move on.

I don't give a flying hoot about the Redskins either. Quite frankly, I don't see a bunch of people traveling to the Dakotas to protest on the behalf of Native Americans. A team name and logo hardly fight for anything substantial. They think it's the way people think that they need to change but it's really the system (I personally don't believe the people in this country are as racist as the media leads us to believe). A team name and logo don't touch the system. But whatever.

Can we play ball already? We need a break from all the BS as a society.

Well stated. People never seem to be able to just move on from the crap in society.
Play ball everyone and enjoy your life! There are always MUCH bigger problems...

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

As an Indians fan and Northeast Ohio native, I don't understand the push for the name change. I didn't see the need to remove Chief Wahoo, either. I grew up with Chief Wahoo, and thought the color was red because the Indians colors are Red, White, and Blue. I never once associated it with skin color. I've been called a racist for supporting Chief Wahoo/the Indians, but how is it racist when I don't see skin color/race?

Presumably it's been explained to you why the Chief Wahoo imagery was considered racist and offensive - exaggerated caricature features (giant eyes, giant nose, etc) and red skin that are drawn directly from insulting/offensive stereotypes of Native Americans.

The fact you "don't see color/race" doesn't change really change anything. The design of the mascot and imagery was based on negative racial stereotypes.

Now, given that the mascot was based on offensive/negative stereotypes and, yes, that is undeniable, do you now understand why it needed to be removed?

[david_l]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I've been called a racist for supporting Chief Wahoo/the Indians, but how is it racist when I don't see skin color/race?

You’ve been called a racist because you are in a unique place of privilege where you have the luxury to ignore race and racism and apparently you choose to do so. You’ve been called a racist because you have an opportunity to assist in helping those who have been oppressed and otherized but you would rather ignore this opportunity. The concept and repercussions of race exist in this country even if you have the luxury of not acknowledging it. Many others don’t have that luxury. Whether you acknowledge it or not you have benefited from the racist legacy of this country. For example, do you know about redlining in Cleveland? (Don’t answer that)

I’m from Ohio and it also took me a long time to see these names for what they are, but that’s no excuse. Wahoo isn’t even arguable anymore though.

I wish I could say this nicer but your post comes off as really ignorant. Maybe try reading some history and sociology books by people of color. It’s 2020 and racism is finally getting (more) called out. I could be wrong but at least I’d be wrong on the side of compassion and empathy. I wish you and your family the best.

Written on Nez Perce land,

David Lu$ti$

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by david_l

Until some of you experience genocide, cultural annihilation, years of reneged promises and treaties, and overt racism I just don’t think you’ll get it. Here’s hoping for a change though.

The only part of your post that is factual is the reneged promises and treaties, of which nobody alive today had any involvement.

Indian tribes were butchering and scalping each other long before Europeans arrived on the scene. If genocide was the goal, it was a miserable failure. There are far more people alive today with Indian ancestry than in 1800, with far greater life expectancy.

The only reason we know of great Indian leaders like Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse is because of the written English language, and photography. The reason we know virtually nothing about the great Indians of 500 or more years past, is that the Indians weren't able to record their history until Europeans began documenting it for them. Indian words are memorialized forever in the names of our cities, states, rivers, lakes, etc.

As we know, several Indians were in the Big Leagues going back to the turn of the last century, and generally, they were extremely popular. In fact, Cleveland's team was named after one of them. Overt racism at some point in distant history, sure. But no one alive today was involved in the Indian wars. That was other people in another time.

[packs]

Have you ever been to a reservation? You are familiar with the Trail of Tears?

[Jason19th]

It is not true to say that no one alive was victim to the two century attempt to destroy Native land and identity. Well into the 1960’s and 1970’s young native children were taken from their families to be sent to Indian schools or to be placed with white families. This was done to strip these children of their heritage.

It was not until 1978 the the Indian Child Welfare Act was passed to address this issue

This in Not ancient history