Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[Peter_Spaeth]

I buy a new automatic watch on ebay in its factory packaging. I unpackage it, wind it, wear it for a day and discover it's badly defective. Can I not return it, because it's no longer in its factory packaging?

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I buy a new automatic watch on ebay in its factory packaging. I unpackage it, wind it, wear it for a day and discover it's badly defective. Can I not return it, because it's no longer in its factory packaging?

Depends if the packaging has value or not. If so, is that value contingent upon the packaging and the item being together (e.g., not opened)? If so, then no you cannot return it for a full refund. Partial refund maybe but that packing did add to the value.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aplyon86

Depends if the packaging has value or not. If so, is that value contingent upon the packaging and the item being together (e.g., not opened)? If so, then no you cannot return it for a full refund. Partial refund maybe but that packing did add to the value.

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So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

Is the company that packaged that hypothetical watch still in business?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Is the company that packaged that hypothetical watch still in business?

Sure but most watch manufacturers provide a warranty only on watches sold through authorized dealers. This watch is not bought from an authorized dealer.

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

If the packaging had value then you'd be stuck with some sort of loss. I was trying to say that the buy "damaged" the item (in this case the item isn't the card it's the combined item of the card and the slab with an opinion that it was not altered and had a grade of a 7). What's left is just the card. So whatever that value that was lost should be on the buyer.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aplyon86

If the packaging had value then you'd be stuck with some sort of loss. I was trying to say that the buy "damaged" the item (in this case the item isn't the card it's the combined item of the card and the slab with an opinion that it was not altered and had a grade of a 7). What's left is just the card. So whatever that value that was lost should be on the buyer.

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Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that, given the "not as described" remedy provided by ebay and paypal.

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that.

The risk of destroying an accessory to the watch, yes the risk is on you. The watch itself, no. This isn't the best anology because the slab, albeit GAI and albeit they missed the alteration, did have more than an insignificant value. If you had the following 2 choices to buy the watch, would you expect a full refund in BOTH cases?

1. Just the watch (e.g. a raw card)
2. The watch, but you paid a 50% premium because it came in an expensive hand carved wooden box that you destroyed to pieces (e.g., the slab)?

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[Rhotchkiss]

I think it’s nuts we still don’t know who the seller is?

Peter/Mark and anyone else supporting the buyer here, I don’t want to get into it (we disagree), but regardless of who you think is right and wrong, would you feel comfortable selling any card to the buyer? I wouldn’t!

I think we would all be better off knowing who is out there on eBay cracking cards out, submitting them, and then returning them if they don’t fish their wish.

Edited: substituted “buyer” for “seller” twice

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that, given the "not as described" remedy provided by ebay and paypal.

Also the slab serves sort of as a COA that the item being returned is the exact same item in the exact same condition as what was sold. Who's to say the card wasn't trimmed after it was cracked? Or as someone pointed out, cracking it out could have damaged the card, too.

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[perezfan]

Once it was cracked out, any right to return it should be removed. The card could have been altered/enhanced after the cracking-out, or easily damaged as a result of the crack-out.

I can see the other side of this, and it makes for a great discussion. But to me, a return is only warranted if the seller receives his item back in same condition as it was sold. And based on what we've seen time and time again, PSA's "expert opinion" offers no more credence than any other self-appointed authority.