A Modest Proposal

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Well they've proven, even in the midst of the scandal that they can spot a LOT of altered cards. That's why the key is to establish the threshold percentage. Again this was inspired by submissions where they rejected a ton of the cards, yet graded the remainder. To me if you then flag the rest of the submission for closer examination you are still rewarding the card doctors. Once you hit that percentage, BAM your cards are returned ungraded and you are banned. No need to waste more time on them, you are a bad actor and your entire submission is suspect.

[swarmee]

Then what do you do about all their previous submissions? Track down the current owners for reviews that would kill your profit?

PSA can't do this work or they'd put themselves out of business, IMO. If the 11,000 cards revealed by using their Cert system get recalled, they're on the hook for a lot more than the ~$2 million in found altered cards already (for less than 500 visibly altered).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'm not trying to solve past problems that's in the hands of law enforcement. I am trying to prevent future problems.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I'm not trying to solve past problems that's in the hands of law enforcement. I am trying to prevent future problems.

Start your new TPG. I'm rooting for you!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

LOL I appreciate it but it was never mine, I was asked to join someone who was in a position to start one. I'm hoping he follows through, but I think the start-up and marketing costs are daunting.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

LOL I appreciate it but it was never mine, I was asked to join someone who was in a position to start one. I'm hoping he follows through, but I think the start-up and marketing costs are daunting.

I hear ya, but that's my point. We see a "better" way, but we want someone else to bear the cost while we stand on our soapbox. Free market will determine service / price level.
.

[bounce]

As of right now, I don't believe enough people are willing to pay for reliability in grading. PSA would never do this because it would cost them revenue, and the overwhelming number of collectors wouldn't be willing to pay more for the security.

I like where your thoughts are, but the economics just don't add up until there's some sort of "technology" element that makes it better AND cheaper.

[Mark17]

Scott, I think it's an interesting thought but see the problems others have mentioned. As to the doctors, they would just submit more clean cards with their altered cards, to keep their altered ratio sufficiently low. It would cut into their profit margin, but it might also increase the chance of them slipping their altered cards through.

Here's the solution you seek: Team up with a few other high-integrity people in the hobby, get with some tech people who can perfect a system using black light, infrared light, X-ray, etc. that can reveal modern substance on old cards, differences in materials (coloring,) differences in density (built-up corners,) perhaps a micrometer to test for thickness uniformity, and so on.

Then start a business that can perform these tests and perhaps others, and offer this service to collectors for about the same fees the current TPG charge. But, here's the big difference - you don't offer any opinion on grade. Just pure authenticity.

When I get my oil changed, I am given a checklist describing exactly what was done. They don't say, "Your car is problem-free," which could cause them issues later, if they missed anything. They instead tell me that the oil and filter were changed, certain specific fluids topped off, tire air pressure, etc.

So, this new authentication company does the same. Describe what tests are being done, give the digital results of those tests, retain detailed scans of every card that is evaluated for future reference (like, if it comes back in someday, altered,) and leave it at that. No opinion, no grade given, and therefore no conflict of interest, no potential favorable treatment, etc.

Have a couple cards handy that have been altered, and at the start of each day, run those cards through the process to verify the machines are giving the same readings they gave yesterday (to be sure the machines are working properly.)

While testing the capability of the technology available, look into whether or not a "quick review" process could be applied to cards already slabbed. It would not be able to test card thickness, and would thus be more limited, but it might still be possible to spot other things without having to crack the cards out. I do not know what is/isn't possible.

Scott, come up with a business plan like that, choose your partners well, form an LLC, and I'll bet a lot of people here would be interesting in investing; I know I would.

Current TPG companies are not the solution. A new, objective, transparent company/process is what is needed, to identify past and future altered cards. Leaving the whole grading aspect out of it would eliminate a ton of problems.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Scott, I think it's an interesting thought but see the problems others have mentioned. As to the doctors, they would just submit more clean cards with their altered cards, to keep their altered ratio sufficiently low. It would cut into their profit margin, but it might also increase the chance of them slipping their altered cards through.

Here's the solution you seek: Team up with a few other high-integrity people in the hobby, get with some tech people who can perfect a system using black light, infrared light, X-ray, etc. that can reveal modern substance on old cards, differences in materials (coloring,) differences in density (built-up corners,) perhaps a micrometer to test for thickness uniformity, and so on.

Then start a business that can perform these tests and perhaps others, and offer this service to collectors for about the same fees the current TPG charge. But, here's the big difference - you don't offer any opinion on grade. Just pure authenticity.

When I get my oil changed, I am given a checklist describing exactly what was done. They don't say, "Your car is problem-free," which could cause them issues later, if they missed anything. They instead tell me that the oil and filter were changed, certain specific fluids topped off, tire air pressure, etc.

So, this new authentication company does the same. Describe what tests are being done, give the digital results of those tests, retain detailed scans of every card that is evaluated for future reference (like, if it comes back in someday, altered,) and leave it at that. No opinion, no grade given, and therefore no conflict of interest, no potential favorable treatment, etc.

Have a couple cards handy that have been altered, and at the start of each day, run those cards through the process to verify the machines are giving the same readings they gave yesterday (to be sure the machines are working properly.)

While testing the capability of the technology available, look into whether or not a "quick review" process could be applied to cards already slabbed. It would not be able to test card thickness, and would thus be more limited, but it might still be possible to spot other things without having to crack the cards out. I do not know what is/isn't possible.

Scott, come up with a business plan like that, choose your partners well, form an LLC, and I'll bet a lot of people here would be interesting in investing; I know I would.

Current TPG companies are not the solution. A new, objective, transparent company/process is what is needed, to identify past and future altered cards. Leaving the whole grading aspect out of it would eliminate a ton of problems.

Aaaaaand... you forgot to mention that this will be a money losing endeavor that will result in quick bankruptcy!!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Aaaaaand... you forgot to mention that this will be a money losing endeavor that will result in quick bankruptcy!!

How much would machines like that cost? Some on this board have been using black lights on their personal collections for years. If a good plan was put together I'd sure want to get in on it with an investment. Start-up costs wouldn't be huge but the potential upside sure would be!