T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

[QUOTE=Blunder19;1874137]i saw the Mullaney Brown old mill mentioned in the thread.. thought i would post a clear picture of the card... been a while since i posted it on the board..

forgive me for the extra large pic... but its required to see the Brown OM portion of the card.. which is the most significant part about the card...





Hi Jamie

Thanks for posting an enlarged image of this great T206. It provides us a clearer view of the multiple brands on the back of this "crazy" T206.

Hope to see you at the National in Chicago in August.


TEDZ
.

[Blunder19]

Hey Ted.. yes i will be at the national.. from Wednesday to Saturday... i will come find your table on Wednesday.. have the rare back T206s ready for me

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Hey Ted.. yes i will be at the national.. from Wednesday to Saturday... i will come find your table on Wednesday.. have the rare back T206s ready for me

Hi Jamie

Fair warning, find me early....because the rare ones sell quickly. Our booth is usually set-up near the entrance.

Question for you regarding this amazing T206. Given the way you have displayed the back of this card, can I assume that the Mullaney image on the front of this card is inverted ?
Which would be consistent with the inverted Brown OLD MILL printed on it.



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Nine years ago, Jon Canfield posted this Ty Cobb/TY COBB thread: What We Have Learned About Ty Cobbs With a Ty Cobb Back . It sparked some spirited discussion,
including information revealing that the Ty Cobb Cut Plug Smoking Tobacco was introduced in November 1909.

Only eight red portrait Cobb cards with the Ty Cobb back were known 9 years ago. Since then 14 more have been discovered. Most of them have been from collections in the
greater Atlanta area.







Factory #33...... manufacturer of the Ty Cobb Smoking Tobacco





With all that we have learned on this forum about this mysterious card....Is this, or isn't this card part of the T206 family ? Let's hear your input ? ?

This is not meant to be a "poll"......just, a friendly and meaningful discussion.


TED Z
.

[barrysloate]

We've had this discussion before, but let's give it another shot. With regard to its design, it is an exact match to other T206's. But in terms of its distribution, it is entirely different. All the other 15 brands issued hundreds of different players and poses, as an incentive for consumers to purchase more packs. Ty Cobb tobacco, on the other hand, issued only a single pose. And that is not consistent with T206's as we know them. I say it's not part of the set, but have no problem if the hobby wishes to include it.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

We've had this discussion before, but let's give it another shot. With regard to its design, it is an exact match to other T206's. But in terms of its distribution, it is entirely different. All the other 15 brands issued hundreds of different players and poses, as an incentive for consumers to purchase more packs. Ty Cobb tobacco, on the other hand, issued only a single pose. And that is not consistent with T206's as we know them. I say it's not part of the set, but have no problem if the hobby wishes to include it.

Hi Barry

Yes, we've had this conversation several times before. And yes this card is very unique in the vast population of white-bordered tobacco cards printed and issued from 1909 - 1919.

Newspaper clippings tell us ATC introduced the Ty Cobb tobacco Tin in late 1909. The graphic on this Tin pictures the Ty Cobb (bat on shoulder) pose.....from the 150 Series T206's.

The card, however, is that of the red portrait pose of Cobb. This is consistent with my research that indicates that this pose of Cobb was printed by American Lithographic when they
first started issuing their 350 Series cards (circa....early 1910). Anyhow, this Ty Cobb card was a promotional premium. While some were handed out to customers, other cards were
most likely inserted in the Tin. In any event, my guess is that very few of them were printed (perhaps a single sheet of approx. 100 cards).

So, should this Ty Cobb card be included in the T206 set...I tend to think so. But, I do understand why other collectors would disagree. If I could afford this card, I would put it in my
T206 all - SOVEREIGN set, since it has a green colored back


TED Z
.

[barrysloate]

Hi Ted,
Allow me to offer a more detailed explanation for my position:

The years 1909-11 were fiercely competitive for the various American tobacco brands, and they went to great lengths to sign up baseball players and to issue literally millions of cards each to include in their cigarette packs. This was a major marketing endeavor that turned out to be wildly successful.

Ty Cobb tobacco, on the other hand, had no part in this at all. If they printed only a single sheet of 100 cards, as you suggest, that sounds to me like no more than a one-day marketing campaign, limited to a very small geographic area. Yes, they "borrowed" the red image of Cobb, and designed the back to conform with what was circulating in America, but they were not at all competing with the other brands. How could they? How could a hundred cards compete with the millions being produced elsewhere?

And even if the American Lithograph Company printed them, that in itself doesn't make them part of the national promotion. So I will go so far as to say they have nothing at all to do with T206's, other than they have a similar appearance, something not uncommon in the 1910-era.

That said, if we took a survey, I'm guessing the majority would say they are T-206's. And that's okay, I don't mind taking a minority position. And why are you and I the only ones discussing this? Don't others want to take a break from the PSA/PWCC debacle and talk real baseball cards?