Not the only Hall of Fame getting Watered Down

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Wow. So wrong in so many ways. To each their own, but I would say that the late 60's and most of the 70's owned rock. For the most part, with some exceptions, I think the 80's and 90"s are a musical wasteland in that regard. I can't comment beyond that because I don't willingly listen to that stuff. Also disagree with your interpretation of what sports hofs are, or should be. There is much more to it than that IMO.

Just one man's opinion. Rock was at its most creative in the late 50s and culminated with the British Invasion. With few exceptions (Hendrix), mainstream rock became so boring as the decades went along. Thankfully, in response to the mainstream, there is always a creative underground to help move things forward. Unfortunately, such subcultures are seldom represented in such a "Hall of Fame." Roxy Music is great.

[ajquigs]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

Indeed.
The R&R HOF is a joke. Roxy Music ... not so much.
To me, it's a pretty decent museum. Even it doesn't seem to take the physical "Hall" seriously.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by irv

My thoughts exactly and I've thought this for years. Way too many good/deserving bands that aren't in yet but other, far less deserving ones are.

Truthfully, I pay very little attention to the RHOF anymore nor do I follow who is getting in.
That was all lost when I heard about Madonna and yet bands like Jethro Tull, The Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, T Rex, Pat Benatar to name a few, haven't even been considered yet.

John Prine is an amazing artist and songwriter who has influenced more bands/artists than we'll ever know. Snubbing him only proves, once again, they have no idea what they are doing.

The RHOF is nothing but a joke, imo.

I'm signing on with a ditto to everyone on your snub list.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Problem with RNR HOF is there is no real definition of Rock and Roll. I have my definition and you have yours. I certainly wouldn't put someone like Janet Jackson in a million years in the RNR Hall of Fame. Or Michael Jackson for that matter. Soul, R&B, whatever but certainly not rock and roll.

I agree with that a 100%! Madonna, Janet Jackson and many others are not R&R, imo.

Not that I disagree that they aren't deserving of some type of honor, its just that the R&R HOF isn't the place for them.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Leon

But they "introduced" Grace and all of them gave an unforgettable performance. Of course it didn't hurt that I was in the right state of mind for White Rabbit .

White Rabbit is all about that state of mind.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I'm a metalhead, and I don't understand how Def Leppard made it. I saw them open for Blackfoot.

And Bon Jovi? Ugh.

And fucking Radiohead? Seriously?

You can insult my mom, or my kids, or my wife, and no hard feelings, but don't you ever talk about Radiohead that way. You've just made a moderately powerful enemy.

[DaveW]

Originally Posted by Bram99

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?

http://mascothalloffame.com

So, does Charlie the Tuna qualify as a Mascot - if so, he’s definately in. Or is
he more of a spokesfish?

[drcy]

I'm a Cure fan, but, to be honest, it makes no difference to me if they are in a Hall or not. They were an alternative band. Being elected members of a Hall of Fame would be totally against what was the intent and philosophy of an anti-establishment band like the Sex Pistols. And if you've ever heard an interview of Robert Smith, you'd know he'd be the first to scoff at the idea of being elected to a music Hall of Fame. You should hear what he said about the British Royalty and Royal titles when someone asked if he would ever be knighted.

But, if there is a deserving band, Roxy Music would be one. I'm surprised there's a debate about that and was surprised to learn they weren't already elected.

But, to each his own, and, as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I see the merits of a Rock and Roll museum, but an elected Rock and Roll "Hall of Fame" always seemed like a dumb idea on its very face to me. No doubt it was concocted at least in part to make money (sell tickets). Thus, whether or not my favorite bands are members of a dumb idea makes no difference to me. In fact, if I had to choose, I'd prefer they not be members.

But yes, I also saw the point (and humor) of the initial post that the first wave included bands such as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Elvis Presley, and now its The Cure and Def Leppard. Whether or not I am a fan of The Cure and Roxy Music, I won't argue that it appears that they running low on bands. It may become a common running joke after a few more elections. Someone in Cleveland may be trying to figure out how they can elect The Beatles and Elvis a second time.

One problem with many Halls of Fame, including MLB and Rock and Roll, is they feel compelled to elect someone each year no matter what. But they won't do that because the inductions are money making events. It would of course be refreshing if the Baseball or Rock HOF, or Nobel Prize committee, would occasionally say "Sorry, no one deserving this year." But the Cleveland and Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce wouldn't like that. After retirement, Mickey Mantle said he became wary of awards because he deduced that most of them were attempts to get him to attend their dinner or event.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by drcy

i'm a cure fan, but, to be honest, it makes no difference to me if they are in a hall or not. They were an alternative band. Being elected members of a hall of fame would be totally against what was the intent and philosophy of an anti-establishment band like the sex pistols. And if you've ever heard an interview of robert smith, you'd know he'd be the first to scoff at the idea of being elected to a music hall of fame. You should hear what he said about the british royalty and royal titles when someone asked if he would ever be knighted.

But, if there is a deserving band, roxy music would be one. I'm surprised there's a debate about that and was surprised to learn they weren't already elected.

But, to each his own, and, as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, i see the merits of a rock and roll museum, but an elected rock and roll "hall of fame" always seemed like a dumb idea on its very face to me. No doubt it was concocted at least in part to make money (sell tickets). Thus, whether or not my favorite bands are members of a dumb idea makes no difference to me. In fact, if i had to choose, i'd prefer they not be members.

One problem with many halls of fame, including mlb and rock and roll, is the feel compelled (= $$$) to elect someone each year no matter what. Of course it would be refreshing if the baseball hall of fame or nobel prize would say "sorry, no one deserving this year."

but yes, i also saw the point (and humor) of the initial post that the first wave included bands such as the beatles, the rolling stones and elvis presley, and now its the cure and def leppard.

+1,000,000

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Janice Jackson, The Cure, Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, Roxy Music and the Zombies are the 2019 Class for the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.


The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.


and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????


Who's next.....White Lion, Dexys Midnight Runners, Billy Ray Cyrus.

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!
Instead of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they should just rename it to the Music Hall of Fame or something more generic. I don't have a problem with some of these influential artists going in as their music may have meant so much to a certain generation or group of people. We aren't going to like or agree with all of them but we all have individual tastes, and that's ok. There was no legit reason for it to take so long for Rush or the Moody Blues to get in....two of my favorite bands and no arguing that they are legends in the industry.
Was in Cleveland for one of the Nationals and stopped by. Very interesting place with a lot of cool stuff. I don't think it is still there, but there was a reggae museum in Long Beach at one time down by the Queen Mary. Checked that out and was interviewed by some Jamaican music reporters. That was an amazing eye opening experience. First that I realized how political Bob Marley actually was. I'm sure they scrubbed my interview. Pretty sure I sounded like an idiot!!

[chalupacollects]

It's not a true RRHoF until Rick Springfield can get in without paying ! lol

[JollyElm]

The Hall of Fame in Cooperstown is Mt. Rushmore, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland is just a rocky (pun intended) hill. Musical tastes are completely individual and run the gamut from yodelers to death metal. There's never going to be any sort of consensus as to whom or what deserves to be honored in a Hall of Fame celebrating sounds. (There are a heckuva lot of bands, singers, etc., in this thread alone that make me think, "Who would ever listen to them??!!," but that's life, whatever floats your boat.)
Cleveland should probably be more accurately called 'The Hall of Musical Appreciation,' and then a lot of the contention would abate.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by moeson

Pat Benatar somehow doesn't even get nominated:

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news...726d727ee.html

Warren Zevon has no prayer.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!

Whoops....at least I got The Cured, Roxie Muzak and Deaf Leppard correct.

[callou2131]

I went to the RRHOF last year on vacation and was very disappointed. It was neat, but there is so much actual Rock and roll missing while other genres fill rooms. The fact that Iron Maiden, who has influenced so many, and sold 90 million albums with little to know air play has never even been on the ballot is telling. Stevie nicks gets in for the second time, wile Pat Benatar is left off the ballot. And i dont listen to rap, but since they do allow it in there, it is a travesty that LL cool J Has been snubbed by the voters. he was one of the first rap solo artists, has been doing it since 1983, and still does. he is still relevant 35 years later. He has received the Kennedy Center Honors. Public Enemy is in, The Beastie boys are in, Run DMC is in, NWA and Tupac are in. There is only one of the Originals missing and that is LL.

[drcy]

Having a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like having a Food Hall of Fame. Even if the hot dog or jello or baked Alaska is elected, what is the point and significance, including to the food and the fan of the food? Is a hot dog better because it's a member of the Food Hall of Fame? A Hall of Fame is a bizarre metric.

If you judge or justify the music of The Beatles or Madonna or (fill in the blank) based on whether they are in a private for-profit Hall of Fame, I'd say you have a strange view of music that I can't relate to. To me, a band being a member of the Hall of Fame has nothing to do with nothing.

Duly note that I like bands that both are in and will never ever be in the "Hall," from The Beatles and Led Zeppelin to Discharge and The Television Personalities ("Who?").

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

White Rabbit is all about that state of mind.

Indeed. That is the only possible way you can understand it.

[JollyElm]

I started a thread in the post-war water cooler section for anyone looking to post play lists/songs they love, but other people may not be aware of. Like a clueless jeweler, check it out if you got some gems you want to freely share.

[Shoeless Moe]

Early Pearl Jam




THEE Best jam session/concert/tv show whatever EVER!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdeNbKeXAw


Eddie with the backwards baseball hat was the shiznit!




.....and THEE best version of ALIVE!





actually every frickin' song is a HOME RUN! and not a cheap one in the lot.

[drcy]

Eddie Vedder lives in my neighborhood, and Pearl Jam recorded their 1995 live album (Live at Easystreet) at the record store/cafe a block and a half from my home.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by drcy

Having a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like having a Food Hall of Fame. Even if the hot dog or jello or baked Alaska is elected, what is the point and significance, including to the food and the fan of the food? Is a hot dog better because it's a member of the Food Hall of Fame? A Hall of Fame is bizarre, and misguided, metric.

If you judge or justify the music of The Beatles or Madonna or (fill in the blank) based on whether they are in a private for-profit Hall of Fame, I'd say you have a strange view of music that I can't relate to. To me, a band being a member of the Hall of Fame has nothing to do with nothing.

Duly note that I like bands that both are in and will never ever be in the "Hall," from The Beatles and Led Zeppelin to Discharge and The Television Personalities ("Who?").

Television Personalities are great!

[drcy]

My art theory professor said I was a natural theorist, because, unlike most of his other students, I was able to move beyond whether or not I liked the artwork in question.

For example, I'm no Madonna fan, but she clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Though I would change the name of the Hall to the Popular (Pop) Music Hall of Fame, or Popular Rock Hall of Fame, because they are clearly dealing with commercially successful and popular bands. There is lots of great music outside of the Top 40, but that's not what this museum is about. It's a commercial endever, like a museum park. Which is fine, I guess. I have nothing against tourist attractions and museum parks. I like cotton candy.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by drcy

My art theory professor said I was a natural theorist, because, unlike most of his other students, I was able to move beyond whether or not I liked the artwork in question.

For example, I'm no Madonna fan, but she clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Though I would change the name of the Hall to the Popular (Pop) Music Hall of Fame, or Popular Rock Hall of Fame, because they are clearly dealing with commercially successful and popular bands. There is lots of great music outside of the Top 40, but that's not what this museum is about. It's a commercial endever, like a museum park. Which is fine, I guess. I have nothing against tourist attractions and museum parks. I like cotton candy.

Agree with this except the cotton candy part.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by silvor

Hysteria. That album was HUGE. I believe that tour they played 2 nights in pretty much every city.

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

You can insult my mom, or my kids, or my wife, and no hard feelings, but don't you ever talk about Radiohead that way. You've just made a moderately powerful enemy.

Your mom, kids and wife are all less boring live than Radiohead. The best thing they ever did was their cover of Beck's "Loser".

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

Nice to see Thin Lizzy mentioned.

And what’s the point, if Devo isn’t even in!!!

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Tommy James and the Shondells had two number one hits and 14 top 40 hits, and they're not in the hall. They've also had a number of their songs covered including Billy Idol's Mony Mony, and Joan Jett Crimson in Clover. If that's not enough, then take a listen to Draggin the Line while driving with the top down in summer, and try to tell me that it's not one of the greatest songs of all time. Damn, I'm up way too early drinking coffee. LOL

“I Think We’re Alone Now” is one of my all time favorites

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

It's pronounced:

"SLAYER...SLAYER....SLAYER...SLAYER"


SLAYER RULES!!!!!!!

[oldjudge]

Hopefully, next year The Archies will get in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hopefully, next year The Archies will get in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

I talked with Ron Dante (lead singing voice) in New Jersey in October. He also produced all of Barry Manilow's hits. He still does oldies shows and cruises.

'Sugar, Sugar' is on my personal top 500.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

2 diamond albums, 6 other platinum albums, and multiple gold albums. They didn't even remotely have "one big album".

[rats60]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

2 big albums. Hysteria out sold Pyromania. That is also 2 more big albums that any of those listed bands had. I don't have a problem with Def Leopard making it, but none of those are worthy to me.

Only 2 rock bands really matter and now they will both be in, The Velvet Underground and Roxy Music. After that it is just who is popular and the obvious choices (Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, Floyd, etc.).

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Shoeless Moe

The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.
and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????

Hi everyone. After reading this post I wanted to make my first ever post on the board to talk about this. Since I was 13, my favorite band is The Cure. If you don’t enjoy their music - that’s your opinion. No performer’s music is for everyone. The Cure has produced a ton of albums, had a lot of billboard hits, have a strong legion of fans and this is their 40th anniversary as a band so they are doing something right. Glad they made it.

I have also been a long time supporter of Harold Baines and Lee Smith. Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own. Baines put up some pretty impressive career numbers. My support for Baines is largely based on the assumption that if there were no strikes in 1981 and 1994 and he had that time back he would have 3000 hits and 400 home runs and there would be no question of his accomplishments. His numbers are better than Tony Perez for comparison to a current member. I take issue with the sportswriters who didn’t see this and vote for him when he was on the ballot.

To me, the 2019 inductees have earned their spots and are deserving of the honor and the institutions are better for having them.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own.

What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Hi everyone. After reading this post I wanted to make my first ever post on the board to talk about this. Since I was 13, my favorite band is The Cure.

I was well known as a Cure fanatic back in college back in the late '80s. Their albums Pornography and Faith are still #2 and #3 on my all-time favorite albums . . . Along those aesthetic lines, Echo & the Bunnymen, The Psychedelic Furs and Bauhaus were other college favorites-- and still are.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

It's pronounced:

"SLAYER...SLAYER....SLAYER...SLAYER"


SLAYER RULES!!!!!!!

The only Def Leppard albums worth listening to are prior to Pyromania

Here's my hall of fame...

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

The only Def Leppard albums worth listening to are prior to Pyromania

Here's my hall of fame...

I would love if there was a Hard Rock & Heavy Metal Hall of Fame.

Black Sabbath, KISS, Venom, Slayer, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Metallica could be the first class of inductees.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I would love if there was a Hard Rock & Heavy Metal Hall of Fame.

Black Sabbath, KISS, Venom, Slayer, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Metallica could be the first class of inductees.

Wha? No Purple (Deep)? I really need to watch my speedometer when listening to Lazy or Highway Star live.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Tabe

What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

Lee Smith was the all time saves leader from 1993-2006. Still 3rd all time.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by tschock

Wha? No Purple (Deep)? I really need to watch my speedometer when listening to Lazy or Highway Star live.

Ok, fair point. Purple is in!

[Rickyy]

Roxy Music should have been in the HOF years ago... influenced the new romantic movement in music, took Rock music to new heights and directions.

Ricky Y

[Shoeless Moe]

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?



and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!


It would be tough picking an initial 5, but I'd go:

Zeppelin
AC/DC
Metallica
Van Halen
Black Sabbath/Ozzy

in no particular order.


The next class:

Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Motorhead
Slayer
Guns n Roses




dammit.....forgot Aerosmith

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?

Early work with Ozzy is where Sabbath is deserving of Hall enshrinement, by the time Ronnie James got involved.....nope! I don't see him in there with Rainbow or on his own either.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!

Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by BobC

Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.



And I'm fine with Dio waiting to get in, as far as I'm concerned He's The Last In Line!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.

Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

[drcy]

I'm not just The Cure.

For 'hard' bands, I'd nominate Celtic Frost and Discharge. The best ever metal band and the best punk. Seminal, influential, but probably too real and extreme to ever be considered.

Discharge's Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing (1982) is the greatest extreme music and punk album ever made. In a class of its own. It is one of the most influential albums, whether or not you heard of the band or album and is as fresh and extreme today as it was 36 years ago. "A punk rock landmark if ever there was one, Discharge's Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing is one of the most bleak, angry albums to ever grace the underground."-- allmusic

Other deserving punk bands are Black Flag and Dead Kennedys, but I'm sure they laugh at a music HOF.

Duly note that I think the HOF is silly, and do want to see those bands in it.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Michael B

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by BobC

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!

KISS has made so many great songs. I have been listening to them since 1977 and many songs I would guess I have heard 1000 times and they never get old. KISS is the Babe Ruth of the R&R HOF.