Full Disclosure and Public Apology, Regarding T206 Reproductions Sold on Ebay in Feb.

[ullmandds]

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

Agreed, Pete, and for me it is going to be extremely hard to forgive and/or forget this one, and that's 100% attributable to the way NJ had carried himself on this board since his first forgiven transgression a few years ago (on the BST). The unfailingly polite, aw shucks, "Thanks, Mr. (insert name here)," sweet-natured enthusiasm really duped me, even though I had a less than great personal experience with him once (way, way down on the transgression list - he simply didn't get back to me after telling me he was interested in a card and then not responding to me after I quoted a price. Not a big deal at all, just kind of annoying). It's now just really tough to square that nice kid with the person that pulled off a scam and only came clean by his own admission after being prodded. I'm glad he admitted everything - I wish more scammers would do so - but I hate the feeling I have about being had by NJ's squeaky-clean kid act.

[chalupacollects]

So after opening an unpaid on ebay did you turn yourself in to the local police?

That would show an intent to change...and be believable...

[edjs]

Not to discount what any of you guys have said, but dude, those are the worst looking fakes I have ever seen. By far. Other than that, you did wrong, but don't let it define you. The guys are being justifiably hard on you, but this is not the end of your world. Learn from this, and grow to be a better person. I always liked the saying that until you hit rock bottom you don't know how far it is to the top. Now is the time to make the change.

[njdunkin1]

Thanks to all who have posted. I've read each response thoroughly and have been in discussion with Leon.

Without revealing too much personal information, I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things. I'm not saying this as an excuse, but (for example) each time I addressed someone by their first name, it was genuine and it was how I was raised.

These actions of mine are not a proper example of how I was raised and on what moral grounds I'm being taught to live by. I again apologize to each member affected by this; it wasn't just foolishness, I acted out stupidly and arrogantly.

I've spoken with Leon; I'm going to take a break for a little while and gather myself.

I appreciate all of the feedback as I'm going to spend some time under the leadership of wise council and trusted adults in my life.

NJ Dunkin

[PiratesWS1979]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things.

"The eBay User Agreement requires that members be at least 18 years."

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

njdunkin_2
Apr-16-18
Present

katie5831
Mar-20-17
Apr-16-18

njdunkin1
Jan-14-17
Mar-20-17

k*******1
Jan-01-05
Jan-14-17

[tschock]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

"The eBay User Agreement requires that members be at least 18 years."

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

njdunkin_2
Apr-16-18
Present

katie5831
Mar-20-17
Apr-16-18

njdunkin1
Jan-14-17
Mar-20-17

k*******1
Jan-01-05
Jan-14-17

Yeah, I just saw that as well. "Member since: Jan-01-05" ???? (I have a guess though)

[ullmandds]

Heaven knows the trouble I'd have gotten into when I was a young man if the internet existed as it does today. Dunkin...take this to heart...learn from it...you'll be ok...hopefully.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Heaven knows the trouble I'd have gotten into when I was a young man if the internet existed as it does today. Dunkin...take this to heart...learn from it...you'll be ok...hopefully.

+ (pick a number)

[edjs]

Originally Posted by tschock

Yeah, I just saw that as well. "Member since: Jan-01-05" ???? (I have a guess though)

Yeah, that needs some explaining. How old were you when you joined eBay? Obviously under the "must be 18" rule. Since that was 13 years ago, and you are in high school, you must of been what, 3 or 4?

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by edjs

Yeah, that needs some explaining. How old were you when you joined eBay? Obviously under the "must be 18" rule. Since that was 13 years ago, and you are in high school, you must of been what, 3 or 4?

I can attest to this; It's my folks' account (hence "katie")

If you'll look at the original name and first name change, you'll see it coincided not too long after I began buying cards.

NJ Dunkin

Edit: this is likely my last post to answer any residual questions in conclusion before my suspension. thank you to all who have responded.

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Thanks to all who have posted. I've read each response thoroughly and have been in discussion with Leon.

Without revealing too much personal information, I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things. I'm not saying this as an excuse, but (for example) each time I addressed someone by their first name, it was genuine and it was how I was raised.

These actions of mine are not a proper example of how I was raised and on what moral grounds I'm being taught to live by. I again apologize to each member affected by this; it wasn't just foolishness, I acted out stupidly and arrogantly.

I've spoken with Leon; I'm going to take a break for a little while and gather myself.

I appreciate all of the feedback as I'm going to spend some time under the leadership of wise council and trusted adults in my life.

NJ Dunkin

Dude;

I certainly have made my share of mistakes; To err is human, to forgive is divine, but to fraud is unforgivable {as in intentional act to deceive}. You seem responsible enough to admit you made a mistake. My advice, learn from this life lesson and realize your reputation is worth a lot more than a few $. In a small niche marketplace; you will be better off overcharging for the right stuff {if you have to} than to sell a fake product. I think it's a good idea to reflect on this and maybe even return any money, even at a loss if you have to. {although I am not your father} Good luck in the future and remember when you lie once, you usually have to lie multiple times to cover the original lie. Start with the truth...................it's much easier. I do admire your sincerity, if it's real, though.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Sean

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

I missed it also. Is there a link?

[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by Sean

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

Would love to know this person so I can write them off my list of people to do transactions with.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

Would love to know this person so I can write them off my list of people to do transactions with.

Me too

[53Browns]

Yet another reason to reinforce my decision to ONLY collect PSA/SGC slabbed cards. I know the major graders aren't perfect either and can miss one here and there but it's getting to be like the wild west with ungraded items, IMHO.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

Was that Jerry Senility?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

Was that Jerry Senility?

Yep

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Yep

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

[darwinbulldog]

Surely the simplest explanation is that he endorses the views espoused on the site. Perhaps he's also sending his savings to Nigerian princes and to people selling raw T206 Wagners on eBay or something, but being senile doesn't make you racist. It might make you less careful about revealing your racism, but that's a separate issue.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Back to NJ. I really hope he learns from this. I wish I had learned some life-skills things when I was younger. Learning the hard way is difficult.

[KMayUSA6060]

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've seen in his similar conversations with others who have confronted him, he has worked to sculpt his "apology" to open the door as much as possible for forgiveness. Essentially, he's working the angles to avoid the death penalty in the hobby. I wanted to share our conversation because I don't believe there should be much sympathy for him. I know people live by the adage "forgive and forget" but I'm not sure I'll ever forgive, and I sure as hell won't forget.

I have no idea how old he is. I do know that money affects livelihoods. It's criminal what he did, no matter the age, and his knowledge on the situation is well beyond any potential ignorance at his age.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This sounds like a poorly written screenplay.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

I'd consider doing business with a racist or a skinhead before I would with someone who blatantly defrauded others in the hobby. Although I do agree it would be best not to have either as members of this community.