Brent Huigens - PWCC. Do you really want to keep this game up? I'm ready boss.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Are you referring to the scammer that bought the Green Cobb as a novelty item and then got caught trying to sell it as real? I believe his ebay ID has realtopps in it. That person has been caught doing several shady things and I would not trust anything they(man/wife) said.

Hey Ben, the guy you're referring to goes by Toppsaholic on eBay. On Net54 he calls himself Realtoppsaholic.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I am curious to know what can be obtained via general inquiry by calling PSA and inquiring about the cert and the cards history.

[Brent Huigens]

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

None of this done to explain anything other than why we will see the card again soon in another upcoming PWCC auction (likely with another grade).

"PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client." No idea what that means. PWCC purchases a card from REA for Client 1 and then submits the card, and gets it regraded, and then resells the card on behalf of Client 2? Huh? Well who soaked the card? And how did the card get from one PWCC client to another. All smells terrible to me.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

Brent sold me the card after National on '15 after it was shopped around by multiple big names in this hobby. When it didnt sell for the asking price at National, Brent approached me with the deal that we made. I will directly dispute the fact that they say that Brent never owned the card. His words to me were that it was his and that he thought it would fit well in my collection EVEN THOUGH HE HATED TO LET IT GO.....key phrase "the card is mine and ill let you have it for 75k, but please keep the sale quiet."

Brent, i have all the facts from the purchase. You won it, you had it doctored and you sold it to me stating that IT WAS YOUR CARD. I dont delete 75k documentation, texts, emails, accounting, etc. I think ive proved that via another thread regarding this card. Would you like to see the messages from Betsy while you were on a few of your biweekly vacations......when she said you went fishing with your dad? Those messages are interesting.

It is exactly for times like this that I let people draw their own conclusions about me. Apparently you thought that a backwoods AL redneck wouldnt keep records.

How many times did i have to correct your evaluation of my account when i was consigning over 250k/mo with you? Of those times, how many times was your math off to the point that i had to tell you that according to my records, I OWED YOU more than you accounted for. Did you never pick up on how deep my records go when i took every month to the penny?

I still have about 3 yrs of spreadsheets and a nice little text where i won a jordan 10, the holder was tampered with and you asked that i return it to you. You refunded my money, but didnt tell me for over a yr that the card wasnt actually the card psa graded.....that someone had pulled the 10 and inserted a 9. Im sure you try to keep as much of that stuff as quiet as you can as well.

Try again.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

huh???

Every post you make seems to make your position weaker. Eventually you will understand that most people aren't stupid.

Are you shaking a magic eightball before you make a response?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bigfish

huh???

Every post you make seems to make your position weaker. Eventually you will understand that most people aren't stupid.

Are you shaking a magic eightball before you make a response?

This may still be my favorite credibility burner, though I am biased. Posts 76 and then 78.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...75#post1196475

[botn]

Since Joe is in a mood to write checks and Betsy and Brent are so keen on cleaning up the hobby, Joe might want to take a closer look at Brent's submission below that the DiMaggio was part of. Many of the cards bumped and before pics are posted on this thread...http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=234837 Brent and Betsy ought to be more careful whose cards they are submitting and then selling.

24692740 1911 D304 Brunners Bread Ty Cobb PSA 4.5 Sold by PWCC 12/6/15
24692741 1915 Cracker Jack #105 Joe Jackson PSA 3 Sold by PWCC 11/8/15
24692742 No Grade
24692743 No Grade
24692744 1933 Goudey #29 Jimmy Foxx PSA 5 No Record of Sale
24692745 1933 Goudey #149 Babe Ruth PSA 5.5 Sold by PWCC 10/6/15
24692746 1934 Goudey #61 Lou Gehrig PSA 5 Sold by PWCC 10/6/15
24692747 1935 National Chicle #34 Bronko Nagurski PSA 3.5 Sold by PWCC 10/18/15
24692748 1936 World Wide Gum #36 Joe DiMaggio PSA 7 Sold Privately by PWCC
24692749 1940 Play Ball #1 Joe DiMaggio PSA 5 Sold by PWCC 10/6/15
24692750 1940 Play Ball #27 Ted Williams PSA 6 Sold by PWCC 10/6/15
24692751 1941 Play Ball #14 Ted Williams PSA 6 Sold by PWCC 11/8/15
24692752 1941 Play Ball #71 Joe DiMaggio PSA 5 Sold by PWCC 11/8/15
24692753 No Grade
24692754 1957 Topps #95 Mickey Mantle PSA 8.5 Sold by PWCC 10/8/15

[Republicaninmass]

I had to laugh thinking the consignor to REA asked Brent to shill it up... and ended up winning it.


A vicious circle

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

I know you said this was the last post on the thread, but there are still real questions to be asked/answered. Here is mine: will the card now be returned to PSA under their insurance policy and bought back down to the original price/grade range and then either cracked or reholdered? If the card is still out there as a slabbed PSA 7, then it's still a problem. And theoretically, if PSA is liable for the incorrect grading, you could recoup 90% of your costs by busting it down to a PSA Authentic or mid-grade and taking the difference in a check from PSA.

[Batpig]

I'm sure PWCC won't be completely left holding the bag on this. A bump or two and a wink can easily make up 50k. Just need to make sure the card(s) involved aren't as easily identified from past sales!

[glynparson]

John, psa does not refund the submitter of a card anything for an incorrect grade. They will reimburse a subsequent buyer but not the original submitter. I know it seems odd but I have had this happen to me a couple times in the 25 years I have been dealing with psa. They thank you and give you back the grading fee but nothing for the card. You just get it back correctly graded and a refund of the grading fees. I have even experienced this within the last year. It is still their policy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So psa should be the one paying the buyer who overpaid due to psa,s mistake according to what we have been told.

Again, i think we have not been told the whole story or even necessarily the truth.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I know you said this was the last post on the thread, but there are still real questions to be asked/answered. Here is mine: will the card now be returned to PSA under their insurance policy and bought back down to the original price/grade range and then either cracked or reholdered?

If true, I wonder if they could then ship it back to SGC, so SGC could put it back into the "4" holder it apparently belongs in?

Nah, SGC cannot seem to provide a proper grade for their cards...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

If true, I wonder if they could then ship it back to SGC, so SGC could put it back into the "4" holder it apparently belongs in?

Nah, SGC cannot seem to provide a proper grade for their cards...

It belonged in that holder before it was altered. Not so sure now.

[pencil1974]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey Ben, the guy you're referring to goes by Toppsaholic on eBay. On Net54 he calls himself Realtoppsaholic.

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

[Snapolit1]

Biggest card in their auction currently is a Michael Jordan card. Leading bidder has made 20 bids in 6 months and only retracted 4 of them. This might actually be progress!

[Exhibitman]

"PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client."

This is a very cleverly phrased denial that could be literally true but is telling in what is left out.

Courtney confirmed this sequence of events in the prior thread:

Spring 2015: Sold in REA as an SGC 50 for $6600 to Brent
August 2015: Sold privately by Brent to Courtney as a PSA 7 for $75k
Oct 2016: Consigned by Courtney to Goldin and won by John Perez for $46,800
Feb 2017: Consigned by John to Brent and sold to unknown buyer for $52,300

Now assuming that the quoted statement by PWCC is true, i.e., that PWCC purchased the card from REA for a client and had the card graded and then sold it for another client, it leaves the mysterious clients as the culprits. And of course probity (though not any privilege or legal requirement) prevents PWCC from naming the clients. See, but I suspect that PWCC's client was the ownership of PWCC and that this whole endeavor was a carefully structured effort to make PWCC a cut-out between yourselves and the card so that PWCC could plausibly deny ownership and blame everything on mystery clients who bought an SGC card under PWCC auspices and just a few months later brought a raw card for PWCC to submit and sell. So, Betsy, just to make things crystal clear please confirm unequivocally that no one who had an ownership in PWCC at the time were the PWCC clients you reference. You need not break your fake confidentiality to do so as I am not asking for a name, just a confirmation that the PWCC ownership isn't the mystery client.

But before you respond please ask your attorney to brief you on the concept of a "declaration against interest"; may be useful information to have before answering.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So PSA specifically blesses this card knowing it's part of a live auction, then weeks later, Joe Orlando is just sitting around, or Reza, or whoever, and they think gee maybe we'd like to revisit that, let's reach out to Brent. Makes no sense to me.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So PSA specifically blesses this card knowing it's part of a live auction, then weeks later, Joe Orlando is just sitting around, or Reza, or whoever, and they think gee maybe we'd like to revisit that, let's reach out to Brent. Makes no sense to me.

Guessing left out of this whole discussion is the part about the buyer threatening to sue PWCC and PSA and blowing the lid off a lot of shenanigans. Just a guess though.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So PSA specifically blesses this card knowing it's part of a live auction, then weeks later, Joe Orlando is just sitting around, or Reza, or whoever, and they think gee maybe we'd like to revisit that, let's reach out to Brent. Makes no sense to me.

Joe Orlando is pretty easy to locate at a card show. I am sure he will be well aware of the issue, if asked about it in person.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Joe Orlando is pretty easy to locate at a card show. I am sure he will be well aware of the issue, if asked about it in person.

Joe and Reza obviously, assuming Brent sent the card to them, made a considered decision to confirm the grade. It makes no sense that they would spontaneously change their mind. As Steve says, there must be a good reason. As usual, we aren't getting the whole story, even if there is a grain of truth to parts of it.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

I would love to see a screen shot of those emails, because I have heard the exact opposite. He said that the person who sold it to him, didn't tell him it was fake, and he paid a lot of money for it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I would love to see a screen shot of those emails, because I have heard the exact opposite. He said that the person who sold it to him, didn't tell him it was fake, and he paid a lot of money for it.

Yes I thats what I thought as well..

[pencil1974]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Yes I thats what I thought as well..

Something like this work? Or maybe this? So defend your dude man.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Something like this work? Or maybe this? So defend your dude man.

need more than that...which cobb are they referring too.......where is the actual payment of $1500 knowing the card is not real...any other correspondece after that..im assuming the sale was not on ebay....there may be more emails...they also not technically agreeing the card is fake...would want to see what you wrote to them too

[pencil1974]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

need more than that...which cobb are they referring too.......where is the actual payment of $1500 knowing the card is not real...any other correspondece after that..im assuming the sale was not on ebay....there may be more emails...they also not technically agreeing the card is fake...would want to see what you wrote to them too

I'm sorry I'm not here to indulge you. But if you say you don't care if a card is real or not, then you don't care if its fake either. Can't have both. Mic drop I'm out! Look on the bright side man at least I don't bash you like everyone else on here does...but don't push me too far.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

need more than that...which cobb are they referring too.......where is the actual payment of $1500 knowing the card is not real...any other correspondece after that..im assuming the sale was not on ebay....there may be more emails...they also not technically agreeing the card is fake...would want to see what you wrote to them too

Brad Pencil's reputation really should not and cannot be questioned. Don't go down this road Jake. There are more than enough scumbags in this hobby for you to attack to even consider F u cking with Brad. That guy is as honest and decent as they come, and I am proud to call him a friend. He didn't have to come out and say he sold them the card, and yet he did. So what is your theory exactly? That they offered to buy ANOTHER COBB off brad that they knew was fake?
GTFOH defending some shady ebayer over a respected member of this board.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

He sent me several of those threatening messages also. I called him out on that Cobb and a few other scams he was trying to pull. He is known for knowingly buying bad items and trying to sell them as good. Very similar to Battlefield but without the photoshopping.

He quit messaging/threatening me after he bought a trimmed T206 and was trying to sell it as good. Guess he could no longer claim innocence after I sent him links to the auction listing that he bought it from that clearly listed it as trimmed.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not.

Originally Posted by orly57

Brad Pencil's reputation really should not and cannot be questioned.

Somehow these two things don't seem to agree with each other.