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  #1  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:33 PM
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Default PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

PWCC has a generously graded 36 WWG Joe D, http://www.ebay.com/itm/142260836796 but I guess it looks better than it did before, http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...maggio-rookie/.
  #2  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:41 PM
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wow! thats some ROI!
  #3  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:46 PM
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So how did someone remove such a significant amount of age toning to render the untoned spots nearly invisible in this incarnation? A miracle of modern card doctoring.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:00 PM
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A Lady Macbeth job to be sure.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:31 PM
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Default Well, that stinks!

Wow!
  #6  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:31 PM
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Had not noticed that the WWG Joe D as a PSA 7 sold recently in a Goldin Auction because I do not look at their auctions. Their scan was a bit misleading as it is washed out and the stain is not as obvious as it is in the PWCC scan. https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=25573
  #7  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:41 PM
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Default Wwg

Whoever cleaned it up did the hobby a huge favor. Great card either way.
  #8  
Old 02-03-2017, 04:50 PM
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HOLY MOLY. I'm in the wrong business. Definitely crazy ROI.

Last edited by ccre; 02-03-2017 at 04:50 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:09 PM
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:27 PM
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It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).
  #11  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).
Yep, some crack professional grading all the way around.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:35 PM
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Is there a company not out there that specifically cleans/fixes cards?

It's hard to say with this pic/card, but I would tend to believe it was professionally done?
  #13  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:37 PM
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It may have been professionally done.
The question is why wasn't it "professionally" caught?
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:38 PM
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I don't know much about restoration of cards, but to me this looks like the first card was up against some acidic paper and the two corners were protected. The result is toning, which happens in old prints that have been framed with non-acid free mats and backing. The process to remove this toning is well established and very common. If my assumptions are correct, it might not have taken a whole lot to remove the toning from this one.
  #15  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:40 PM
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
Is there a company not out there that specifically cleans/fixes cards?

It's hard to say with this pic/card, but I would tend to believe it was professionally done?

There's restoration companies that clean up posters, but that's more accepted in that field.

They aren't cheap but I'm sure some of them would handle cards if given the business. This one certainly paid off for somebody.

Likely not the guy who bought it from Goldin though. They'll probably be ecstatic if they break even at this point.
  #17  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRBAKER View Post
It may have been professionally done.
The question is why wasn't it "professionally" caught?
Because there is no money in that.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:53 PM
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Or another question should be who submitted the card and did they get a favor done. #PSAblewit
  #19  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRBAKER View Post
It may have been professionally done.
The question is why wasn't it "professionally" caught?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
There's restoration companies that clean up posters, but that's more accepted in that field.

They aren't cheap but I'm sure some of them would handle cards if given the business. This one certainly paid off for somebody.

Likely not the guy who bought it from Goldin though. They'll probably be ecstatic if they break even at this point.
I knew I had read about them. I assume they are still in business seeing as their website is still up and running.
http://www.gonewiththestain.com/
  #20  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).
THey're not tape stains. The REA listing describes the marks very well, the card is age toned EXCEPT in those odd rectangular patches, so something was resting on or protecting those areas of original color. I want to know how they removed the toning from the rest of the card to get it to match those spots of original color so well.
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  #21  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:35 PM
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is correct!
  #22  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
THey're not tape stains. The REA listing describes the marks very well, the card is age toned EXCEPT in those odd rectangular patches, so something was resting on or protecting those areas of original color. I want to know how they removed the toning from the rest of the card to get it to match those spots of original color so well.
I highly doubt this fellow Net54 member will reveal his card doctoring secrets but he would do the work for you for a small or large fee. http://www.gonewiththestain.com/
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:55 PM
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Whoa. Incredible.
  #24  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:07 PM
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Sorry, may be a stupid question, but how do we know these are the same 2 cards?
  #25  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:08 PM
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Default WWG DiMaggio

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.
  #26  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.
If that is really your belief I have some awesome missing color cards I would love to sell you.

Just so you know those women that lose 75 pounds only look hot with clothes on.
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Last edited by bnorth; 02-03-2017 at 07:13 PM.
  #27  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:16 PM
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Default Lol

So true!!
  #28  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
i don't care about its past, it's a psa 7 now and i'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.
lolol
  #29  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.


Great card, and have zero problem with removing tape and stain residue

If I had the cheddar, I'd still want to own it
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:36 PM
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Default Wwg

Right !!! It's a darn POP 1 PSA 7. None higher!!!
Why are we even attempting to knock this card?
Any one of us would kill to have this.

Last edited by aloondilana; 02-03-2017 at 08:12 PM.
  #31  
Old 02-03-2017, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.
Are we talking about shallow "Joe"
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  #32  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
Right !!! It's a darn POP 1 PSA 7. None higher!!!
Why are we even attempting to knock this card?
Any one of us would kill to have this.
Gee John I hope that is not how you came to own it.
  #33  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:08 AM
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If the restoration is acceptable to the community then there should be no concern about disclosing it. But somehow i am guessing PWCC is not going to do that and the consignor would not want that.
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  #34  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.
That is a great analogy, but in the eyes of some (like Peter) it would be like she lost that 75 pounds by having marathon sex with hundreds of different men. Yeah, she looks great, but she is tarnished. I happen to agree with you that I don't really care if the card was soaked so long as it grades. The Mona Lisa and the Sisteen Chapel get restored all the time. I don't think any of us would consider those works of art to be tarnished or less valuable because of it. After all aren't baseball cards just small pieces of art?
  #35  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:45 AM
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There is no deception in art restoration. There is a world of deception in baseball card restoration/alteration, because rarely is any of it disclosed, and the whole point is to make a card look better and grade higher while deceiving the grading companies and potential buyers into thinking it's original.

As I said, if the restoration in this case is no big deal, then the consignor should have no objection to its disclosure. But something tells me the consignor would have been furious if PWCC had posted a picture of the SGC 50 in the auction and explained the work done by Towle or whoever did it.

Can't have it both ways. If it's acceptable and even a good thing as some seem to be saying, you should have no objection to disclosure.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-04-2017 at 07:48 AM.
  #36  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
There is no deception in art restoration. There is a world of deception in baseball card restoration/alteration, because rarely is any of it disclosed, and the whole point is to make a card look better and grade higher while deceiving the grading companies and potential buyers into thinking it's original.

As I said, if the restoration in this case is no big deal, then the consignor should have no objection to its disclosure. But something tells me the consignor would have been furious if PWCC had posted a picture of the SGC 50 in the auction and explained the work done by Towle or whoever did it.

Can't have it both ways. If it's acceptable and even a good thing as some seem to be saying, you should have no objection to disclosure.
All fair points
  #37  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:24 AM
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i highly doubt this card was "just" soaked!
  #38  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:25 AM
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Interesting debate. When I go to sell my house I'm hoping to brush over a couple of 100 flaws/issues. I won't actively deceive anyone, or make any affirmative claims that are false, but I'm going to do everything I can to make the house present well and detract attention away from its shortcomings. Might slap some paint on the side of the house that turns to hell after a few months for some odd reason. May scrub the garage door that always attracts some green mold crud. Does that make me a bad guy?

Did anyone ever answer how we know this is the same card?

Last edited by Snapolit1; 02-04-2017 at 08:26 AM.
  #39  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:28 AM
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Vintage car restoration is acceptable (and disclosed) but collectors pay way way more for untouched, original paint, low mileage jewels that are "condition rarities". The value goes way down if a car(d) is sold as original and then you find out it was reconditioned. That, my friends, is fraud. I would have loved to own that DiMaggio if I could afford it but now it is a lie in a holder.
Scott
  #40  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Interesting debate. When I go to sell my house I'm hoping to brush over a couple of 100 flaws/issues. I won't actively deceive anyone, or make any affirmative claims that are false, but I'm going to do everything I can to make the house present well and detract attention away from its shortcomings. Might slap some paint on the side of the house that turns to hell after a few months for some odd reason. May scrub the garage door that always attracts some green mold crud. Does that make me a bad guy?

Did anyone ever answer how we know this is the same card?
People get their panties in a wad when there is a lack of transparency. That is understandable. I have no issue with the cleaner card. It looks great. And I don't blame PSA one bit. I have been told by one of the best graders I know, who has had personal cards conserved and cleaned, said there was literally NO way he could tell anything was done to his cards. It isn't PSA's fault if there is nothing to see.

.
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  #41  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:30 AM
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its pretty obvious its the same card...just look at the before and after for christ sake?
  #42  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
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its pretty obvious its the same card...just look at the before and after for christ sake?
Who said it wasn't the same card? I agree, it's pretty obvious.
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  #43  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
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Did anyone ever answer how we know this is the same card?

The same discoloration marks on the front are still visible on both....even the cleaned up card.

Also, same centering and same print/toning dots on back of card.
  #44  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
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Sorry, may be a stupid question, but how do we know these are the same 2 cards?

among others.
  #45  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:53 AM
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among others.
Lol, have a second cup Pete!
  #46  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
i highly doubt this card was "just" soaked!
Maybe a little bleach, a little of this, a lot of that.......


Look at that REA version of the card. If those lighter spots are the original color of the card, then that's not "toning". That's a stain!

I'd guess it was soaked out of a scrapbook. The "toning" is glue residue that seeped into the paper, and the lighter marks are one of three things.

#1. Old tape that covered that area, and then deteriorated

#2. Something similar to stamp mounts

#3. The evidence of whatever tool was used to hold the card in place when it was taking it's chemical bath
  #47  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:55 AM
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among others.
others? (plural) Who?
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  #48  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Interesting debate. When I go to sell my house I'm hoping to brush over a couple of 100 flaws/issues. I won't actively deceive anyone, or make any affirmative claims that are false, but I'm going to do everything I can to make the house present well and detract attention away from its shortcomings. Might slap some paint on the side of the house that turns to hell after a few months for some odd reason. May scrub the garage door that always attracts some green mold crud. Does that make me a bad guy?

Did anyone ever answer how we know this is the same card?
this other...just poured my first cup!!!!
  #49  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:03 AM
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You said among other(s) after that? Have 1 more cup, I am.

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this other...just poured my first cup!!!!
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  #50  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaidly View Post
Vintage car restoration is acceptable (and disclosed) but collectors pay way way more for untouched, original paint, low mileage jewels that are "condition rarities". The value goes way down if a car(d) is sold as original and then you find out it was reconditioned. That, my friends, is fraud. I would have loved to own that DiMaggio if I could afford it but now it is a lie in a holder.
Scott
What if all it needed was a little wet sand and buff?
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