PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[aloondilana]

Just my little tidbit.

Guy please, don't act like because I made 1000 or so that I am satisfied.
I did not consign this card and put up a lot of money to purchase it, to make 1000. I wholeheartedly feel screwed by this thread. My estimate was this card was going to hit the 60k mark at a minimum.

Be that as it may, it is what it is.

What you are all neglecting here is the real culprit of this disaster.

PSA, We pay them handsomely for their service and judgement.
For the most part we trust their flips.

This board probably deserves a response from Joe Orlando as it relates to this card. PSA took at least two looks at The DiMaggio and one of the looks came after this thread started.

Many people have been accused and have had their personal character insulted, while PSA has skated clean here. Not fair!

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

This board probably deserves a response from Joe Orlando as it relates to this card.

John, I agree however this WON'T happen in 1000 years!!

[irv]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Just my little tidbit.

Guy please, don't act like because I made 1000 or so that I am satisfied.
I did not consign this card and put up a lot of money to purchase it, to make 1000. I wholeheartedly feel screwed by this thread. My estimate was this card was going to hit the 60k mark at a minimum.

Be that as it may, it is what it is.

What you are all neglecting here is the real culprit of this disaster.

PSA is the problem!! We pay them handsomely for their service and judgement.
For the most part we trust their flips.

This board probably deserves a response from Joe Orlando as it relates to this card. PSA took at least two looks at The DiMaggio and one of the looks came after this thread started.

Many people have been accused and have had their personal character insulted, while PSA has skated clean here. Not fair!

I alluded to that in another post, (pg 51, #510) that there are 3 players here, not 2 but that was quickly dismissed.

Been looking at their grading service as well as a ton of other #7 cards and I still can't figure this one out?
http://www.psacard.com/resources/gra...andards/#cards
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...&_skc=50&rt=nc

Mistakes happen, I get that, and maybe that's all there is to it, but I think I'll keep my suspicions for a while yet.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Just my little tidbit.

Guy please, don't act like because I made 1000 or so that I am satisfied.
I did not consign this card and put up a lot of money to purchase it, to make 1000. I wholeheartedly feel screwed by this thread. My estimate was this card was going to hit the 60k mark at a minimum.

r!

Its a bit presumptive to think you were going to clear 10k on a card that you bought a short time ago and all of those experienced bidders opinion's in the auction you won the card are wrong. There could of been a good reason why you won the card at the price you did in those other bidders minds that also spend tons of money on high dollar cards as flippers. I do not think you were remotely 'wholeheartedly screwed' in making a $1000 on the card. There are a lot worst scenerios that would qualify. I wish my biggest buy/sell regret was only making $1000.

Also you did say earlier on this thread you were going to lose money or least there was a high risk on the card due to what was said on this thread and it turns out you did not so your predictions have not always been so accurate.

[Rookiemonster]

Can somelist all the high dollar PSA graded cards the should not have been put in a holder?

Mastero wangner

Pwcc DiMaggio

What else is out there ?

[bobbyw8469]

There was once a newspaper clipping of Nolan Ryan that someone cut out of a Sporting News and submitted as a card. Yes..you heard me right....A NEWSPAPER CLIPPING!!! Not sure the year of anything like that, but this person submitted three or so of them, they all got graded, and all brought big money. They included it into the master set.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

There was once a newspaper clipping of Nolan Ryan that someone cut out of a Sporting News and submitted as a card. Yes..you heard me right....A NEWSPAPER CLIPPING!!! Not sure the year of anything like that, but this person submitted three or so of them, they all got graded, and all brought big money. They included it into the master set.

Lets see the listing on the PSA registry.


Also as far as PSA having to do research when grading a card to see if the 'same' card had marks or whatever and perhaps cleaned. This is impractical unless they previously held the card in hand. They cant assume there was toning or other issues unless really see it. Scanners can show different things and what may look like a line on a card, may be on the holder etc..

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Lets see the listing on the PSA registry.


Also as far as PSA having to do research when grading a card to see if the 'same' card had marks or whatever and perhaps cleaned. This is impractical unless they previously held the card in hand. They cant assume there was toning or other issues unless really see it. Scanners can show different things and what may look like a line on a card, may be on the holder etc..

You can research it yourself. I'm busy. Here's the card (cough cough).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-The-Spo...-/201012634337

[Rookiemonster]

Right Robert I remember those now ! I thought becket was grading cuts for a while though . But maybe if we can put a list together of all the "know" major grading errors it will hold more weight then " hey look at this card psa" ( whiny little girl voice must be used with the last quotations).

Then we could even put a gross before and after price of theses errors.



Disclaimer:
All puns intended at all times

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Can somelist all the high dollar PSA graded cards the should not have been put in a holder?

Mastero wangner

Pwcc DiMaggio

What else is out there ?

May be quite a list.

[bobbyw8469]

Im telling you...that newspaper clipping takes the cake!! Maybe they should start grading that little vinyl record that has ball player images too!

[BeanTown]

I think it was mentioned in an earlier post that Brent gave the card to Joe Orlando to have special handling of the card. I think it's common sense that large customers of PSA have a direct line to Joe Orlando for special handling. The question is why would PSA turn a blind eye on accurately grading (yes I know subjective) on a high valued card and how many favors are being done on a yearly basis. I'm sure the the big boy submitters who get the special handling done from Joe are taking care of their personal cards or a special consignor.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I think it was mentioned in an earlier post that Brent gave the card to Joe Orlando to have special handling of the card. I think it's common sense that large customers of PSA have a direct line to Joe Orlando for special handling. The question is why would PSA turn a blind eye on accurately grading (yes I know subjective) on a high valued card and how many favors are being done on a yearly basis. I'm sure the the big boy submitters who get the special handling done from Joe are taking care of their personal cards or a special consignor.

Im sure auction houses are more flexible in disclosing flaws in certain cards from big consignors versus the everyday guy.

If you have a 1952 Topps Mantle PSA 8 and only with a microscope you maybe can detect a small small micro wrinkle. How many auction houses would disclose that? As Peter says, if its not material, why not disclose it? I think auction houses would say that only if its material, they will disclose it.

Now for other cards, dont you think with some consignors, auction houses will disclose (small timers like me) that small small wrinkle but for others they wont....thats how it goes..

Id also like to hear from any member on this board that consigned a card and noticed that an auction house listed your card but failed to disclose some flaw. How many of you contacted the auction house to tell them about the flaw and to be sure to put it in the description. Afterall, if its not that big of a deal, why not disclose it...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Can somelist all the high dollar PSA graded cards the should not have been put in a holder?

Mastero wangner

Pwcc DiMaggio

What else is out there ?

The Plank that Doug had rebacked. Probably countless others. PSA 6 Doyle altered to look like the impossible rarity that apparently was submitted in a stack of commons.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Plank that Doug had rebacked. Probably countless others. PSA 6 Doyle altered to look like the impossible rarity that apparently was submitted in a stack of commons.

Right ! Good ones plus all the others Greg uncovered which I'm sure there must be more of .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Right ! Good ones plus all the others Greg uncovered which I'm sure there must be more of .

I've seen countless high end cards I thought were trimmed, but none with any particular notoriety.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Right ! Good ones plus all the others Greg uncovered which I'm sure there must be more of .

These made it to the market but eventually were taken off.
http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=27012#more-27012

[Rookiemonster]

Wow ! Great read peter . So you can get PSAs attention. I'm not saying that they really give a šhït. I think it would bring more attention to what's going on either way.


Psa Favoritism grades for bigger fish :
It seems real to me . But if it is, you would think someone by would have said hey I send in psa 5s and get 7s back almost all the time! Right ? And if this is a real thing then why not have that entity send in your cards for you ? For a cost of course.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Plank that Doug had rebacked. Probably countless others. PSA 6 Doyle altered to look like the impossible rarity that apparently was submitted in a stack of commons.

On a related side note, I strongly feel those cards mentioned are just the "tip of the iceberg" of the whole grading industry. I recall reading a section in the book Mint Condition about the card "Doctor". In which he sent in cards that he "worked" on to the grading companies without detection. Granted, from what I remember those cards he sent in aren't in circulation. Though, if one guy can do it, I'm sure many others can as well.

With that said, I do feel at some point, the grading market might come "crashing" down to a certain degree. Whether it be, some government agency stepping in (with the amount of money being exchanged for these high dollar cards, I'm sure "they're" watching) or people just flat out losing faith in a 3rd parties opinion.

Lastly, I've never sent a card in for grading (been collecting 30ish plus years), I do in fact buy graded cards online to help reduce the risk of me buying a counterfeit, altered card. With the countless stories I've seen or heard about over the years, I cannot put too much faith in a 3rd party opinion on high dollar sports card. Hell, PSA was founded on a trimmed Wagner. Yes, it does help reduce my risk of receiving a counterfeit or altered card when buying online. No way in hell am I paying $10k for a card that you can buy raw for $600 just because of some guys opinion at a grading company. More power to anyone that feels comfortable buying a $50k sports card based on someone's opinion of the condition.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

On a related side note, I strongly feel those cards mentioned are just the "tip of the iceberg" of the whole grading industry. I recall reading a section in the book Mint Condition about the card "Doctor". In which he sent in cards that he "worked" on to the grading companies without detection. Granted, from what I remember those cards he sent in aren't in circulation. Though, if one guy can do it, I'm sure many others can as well.

With that said, I do feel at some point, the grading market might come "crashing" down to a certain degree. Whether it be, some government agency stepping in (with the amount of money being exchanged for these high dollar cards, I'm sure "they're" watching) or people just flat out losing faith in a 3rd parties opinion.

Lastly, I've never sent a card in for grading (been collecting 30ish plus years), I do in fact buy graded cards online to help reduce the risk of me buying a counterfeit, altered card. With the countless stories I've seen or heard about over the years, I cannot put too much faith in a 3rd party opinion on high dollar sports card. Hell, PSA was founded on a trimmed Wagner. Yes, it does help reduce my risk of receiving a counterfeit or altered card when buying online. No way in hell am I paying $10k for a card that you can buy raw for $600 just because of some guys opinion at a grading company. More power to anyone that feels comfortable buying a $50k sports card based on someone's opinion of the condition.

There is a lot of upside to TPG, but the inevitable downside is that they are going to miss a certain amount of highly-skilled card doctoring. There are people out there who are just really good at what they do, and they put a lot more effort into it than TPGs have the time or resources to always detect. It's like PEDs, the masking technology usually runs ahead of the detection technology. What I find interesting and somewhat discouraging is that so many people, particularly high end collectors, seem indifferent to that, and care only about the flip.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is a lot of upside to TPG, but the inevitable downside is that they are going to miss a certain amount of highly-skilled card doctoring. There are people out there who are just really good at what they do, and they put a lot more effort into it than TPGs have the time or resources to always detect. It's like PEDs, the masking technology usually runs ahead of the detection technology. What I find interesting and somewhat discouraging is that so many people, particularly high end collectors, seem indifferent to that, and care only about the flip.

Peter,

Most high end collectors aren't indifferent to that (or at least experienced ones). As a rookie, like everyone else, I bought the holder as opposed to the card. As I became educated, I started ignoring grades and buying the card. Granted, I may have wanted a PSA 8 52 Mantle, and could have gotten a 7 that looked like an 8, but sometimes, you just want the grade b/c it grows in value faster. But, in that situation, I (personally) wait until the "right" 8 comes along.

Just last week I had a VERY good friend come to me for advice on a particular card in the 30K range. It was an attrocious 8.5 and one I'd cringe at everytime I pulled it out to look at it if I owned it. That being said, I talked him into waiting for a 9 to come along (for a multitude of reasons but mainly b/c of how bad the 8.5 was and the difference in 8.5 to 9 in terms of long term value/investment on vintage). And, also to make sure he does the same thing with a 9.............get one with great eye appeal.

Don't lump all high end collectors into the same pool. Some of us started out with the right idea but it took being seasoned or burned due to value to realize that all "8's" are not created equal.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is a lot of upside to TPG, but the inevitable downside is that they are going to miss a certain amount of highly-skilled card doctoring. There are people out there who are just really good at what they do, and they put a lot more effort into it than TPGs have the time or resources to always detect. It's like PEDs, the masking technology usually runs ahead of the detection technology. What I find interesting and somewhat discouraging is that so many people, particularly high end collectors, seem indifferent to that, and care only about the flip.

Great points Peter.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

On a related side note, I strongly feel those cards mentioned are just the "tip of the iceberg" of the whole grading industry. I recall reading a section in the book Mint Condition about the card "Doctor". In which he sent in cards that he "worked" on to the grading companies without detection. Granted, from what I remember those cards he sent in aren't in circulation. Though, if one guy can do it, I'm sure many others can as well.

With that said, I do feel at some point, the grading market might come "crashing" down to a certain degree. Whether it be, some government agency stepping in (with the amount of money being exchanged for these high dollar cards, I'm sure "they're" watching) or people just flat out losing faith in a 3rd parties opinion.

Lastly, I've never sent a card in for grading (been collecting 30ish plus years), I do in fact buy graded cards online to help reduce the risk of me buying a counterfeit, altered card. With the countless stories I've seen or heard about over the years, I cannot put too much faith in a 3rd party opinion on high dollar sports card. Hell, PSA was founded on a trimmed Wagner. Yes, it does help reduce my risk of receiving a counterfeit or altered card when buying online. No way in hell am I paying $10k for a card that you can buy raw for $600 just because of some guys opinion at a grading company. More power to anyone that feels comfortable buying a $50k sports card based on someone's opinion of the condition.

I do think we would also be at more risk buying altered cards if everything was 'raw' . So many disputes as to what is Mint and Near Mint as well that do not exist now with the graded cards. Basically we would have 4000 Battlefield type sellers out there with high number of returns and negative feedback. Yes the great sellers with great reputation shoudl do well but thats how it is now as time goes on.

Just too many bad situations with no third party graders for anyone to think the third party grading will go away

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I do think we would also be at more risk buying altered cards if everything was 'raw' . So many disputes as to what is Mint and Near Mint as well that do not exist now with the graded cards. Basically we would have 4000 Battlefield type sellers out there with high number of returns and negative feedback. Yes the great sellers with great reputation shoudl do well but thats how it is now as time goes on.

Just too many bad situations with no third party graders for anyone to think the third party grading will go away

I do agree with you. The grading companies do help reduce the risk of getting an altered card. Just way too much faith is put into the "flip" on high end cards.

[aloondilana]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector;r1632651

Its a bit presumptive to think you were going to clear 10k on a card that you bought a short time ago and all of those experienced bidders opinion's in the auction you won the card are wrong. There could of been a good reason why you won the card at the price you did in those other bidders minds that also spend tons of money on high dollar cards as flippers. I do not think you were remotely 'wholeheartedly screwed' in making a $1000 on the card. There are a lot worst scenerios that would qualify. I wish my biggest buy/sell regret was only making $1000.

Also you did say earlier on this thread you were going to lose money or least there was a high risk on the card due to what was said on this thread and it turns out you did not so your predictions have not always been so accurate.

Jake please, if you don't think this thread cost my final sale at least $7500 you are really freakin crazy!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Jake please, if you don't think this thread cost my final sale at least $7500 you are really freakin crazy!

So you would rather have someone buy the card without knowing the prior sale. People look at net54 everyday. It is forseeable that someone would post the prior sale on that card during the auction.

You just seem to be complaining for the wrong reason. I dont think anyone on the board besides you will say it was bad that Greg brought up the prior sale. I guess you wish he brought it up AFTER the auction? The winner could of returned the card and asked for a refund if went for 60k.

So if the thread started after the sale the net effect may of been the same. I guess you wanted something to post that past sale AFTER the potential refund period expired.

I get why you are upset in general but dont understand why you are upset at the timing of the information of the thread and you did Make a Thousand dollars and the buyer may have been fully informed as well and wont ask for a refund. I just think you are mad at the wrong people.

Also again, i guess i am crazy because i still dont think the card goes for 7500 more than what you paid for it a short time ago and nobody else bothered to bid higher than you and give up a 'sure $5000'

[irv]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Fair question, as I am mostly a buyer also. Truth be told, I've bought 90% of my cards on PWCC. Over the last 6 years, close to 2,000 cards, all from 70-77 and all PSA 9's (except for a few 71 8's; and this doesn't include the high end raw sets I bought 3-5 years ago before they started breaking them up)

Until you can show me another auction house that has their hands clean and has the quantity and quality that I look for, then I'll stick with PWCC. And if I can't snipe, I essentially stay away.

PWCC will be at the National. I recommend if you have an issue with them, ask for Brent, look him in the eye, and ask away. It's easy to tell someone to F-off or make accusations on a forum. Face to face, little different.

I will be at the National this year also, my first one in 30? years, and would love to meet some of you whether we disagree or not. You can find me at the $20 card bins.

Uh? Where did that come from? I am disappointed with a lot of things in this thread, but telling someone to F-off to their face isn't something that has even crossed my mind at this point.

I have had nothing but good luck with pwcc, and like I said, spoke highly of them prior, but I personally hate to read things like this in any type of scenario, so, like I said earlier, I think I'll avoid/stay away from them, or at least for a while, or until everything comes out in the wash, if it ever does?

Lately, I have had pretty good luck purchasing cards cheaper and not having to pay a $15 dollar shipping fee, which works out to about $20, give or take, to get it up here.

Curious, is the $15 what you guys pay state side as well?

[aloondilana]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

So you would rather have someone buy the card without knowing the prior sale. People look at net54 everyday. It is forseeable that someone would post the prior sale on that card during the auction.

You just seem to be complaining for the wrong reason. I dont think anyone on the board besides you will say it was bad that Greg brought up the prior sale. I guess you wish he brought it up AFTER the auction? The winner could of returned the card and asked for a refund if went for 60k.

So if the thread started after the sale the net effect may of been the same. I guess you wanted something to post that past sale AFTER the potential refund period expired.

I get why you are upset in general but dont understand why you are upset at the timing of the information of the thread and you did Make a Thousand dollars and the buyer may have been fully informed as well and wont ask for a refund. I just think you are mad at the wrong people.

Also again, i guess i am crazy because i still dont think the card goes for 7500 more than what you paid for it a short time ago and nobody else bothered to bid higher than you and give up a 'sure $5000'

Ok Jake, you don't think this thread hurt the card at least 7500 bucks?
Cmon, seriously ?!? I don't care if I get banned from this site, as you can tell from my measly 67 posts in 4 years I don't live on this site like you.
So go F yourself!, better yet have Greg do it for you. Loser! Get a life you spend way too much time arguing nonsense on this message board!

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL. Of course we can't know with certainty unless someone comes forward and so attests, but I agree with John it is certainly very plausible that there are folks who read or heard about this thread and didn't bid, or bid less. It's just common sense. I don't know why certain people on this thread want to fight different aspects of the obvious.

[ezez420]

I second Johns response. This ridiculous post definitely put a damper on the card for bs. Frankly who gives a sht whether a card was any grade before. I think someone should pay restitution to John for hurting auction.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. Of course we can't know with certainty unless someone comes forward and so attests, but I agree with John it is certainly very plausible that there are folks who read or heard about this thread and didn't bid, or bid less. It's just common sense. I don't know why so many people on this thread want to fight different aspects of the obvious.

Obviously it COULD have hurt his auction, but I gotta say, while, if I were in his shoes, I would be pissed as well for a lot of reasons, at a lot of people, I doubt it hurt it by $7500. (diagram THAT sentence grammar police!) I mean really what % of the buying public for a card in this echelon do we really think N54 represents? We already have proof that people shelling out big bucks don't necessarily do any research on the card before they pull the trigger. So a non-member very likely never stumbled across this debacle.

Seriously though I'd love to hear estimates on a %. We may collectively be a big fish in a small pond, but I'm guessing we're a smaller fish in a bigger pond than you might think.

All that said I still feel for him as, unless I missed something, he was an innocent bystander who got slammed by circumstance.

Now if he would just apologize for the douchey $20 collector comment...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Just my little tidbit.

Guy please, don't act like because I made 1000 or so that I am satisfied.
I did not consign this card and put up a lot of money to purchase it, to make 1000. I wholeheartedly feel screwed by this thread. My estimate was this card was going to hit the 60k mark at a minimum.

Be that as it may, it is what it is.

What you are all neglecting here is the real culprit of this disaster.

PSA, We pay them handsomely for their service and judgement.
For the most part we trust their flips.

This board probably deserves a response from Joe Orlando as it relates to this card. PSA took at least two looks at The DiMaggio and one of the looks came after this thread started.

Many people have been accused and have had their personal character insulted, while PSA has skated clean here. Not fair!

John forgive me but I am confused a bit. During the auction weren't you vigorously defending the grade? Now you say PSA is the culprit?

[aloondilana]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John forgive me but I am confused a bit. During the auction weren't you vigorously defending the grade? Now you say PSA is the culprit?

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

John I too would like to understand PSA's rationale for grading the card, particularly as they presumably knew what had been done to it when Brent sent it back to them (assuming he did). But Joe is too smart for that, he is not going to post here about anything controversial, and why should he given PSA's amazing success despite a number of controversies.

[aloondilana]

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

It's a virtual certainty PSA knew about the thread. They have in my opinion chosen a business model of relative lack of communication and transparency, including poofing every controversial thread that comes up on CU, but obviously they have made the judgment that that's the best way to run their business, and their success validates that.

[irv]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

John, did those left side marks/stains look as visible in hand as they do in the scans?

I, personally, would be a little more forgiving and less suspicious of the TPG if they are very hard to see, but I can't imagine that with the technology they have and likely use.

I still haven't been able find a PSA 7 card that comes remotely close to looking like this one, not even an older slabbed one?

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

John

This thread was started on 2-3 with the auction ending on 2-7. Four days that action could have been taken.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the card in this auction was your property. Why didn't you pull the card?

No matter who is at fault here, you were the last link in the chain and could have done something.

Jantz

[rajah424]

So, it's wrong for Greg to potentially cost an innocent consignor but what about the potential winner that he might have saved? I feel for John in this situation but seems like he might have some recourse with PWCC. The more times this card is sold it seems it would be more difficult to be made right by the original parties involved in the cleaning of the card.

It would really suck to pay for a PSA 7 and 5 years from now those stains start to reappear.

[ezez420]

I still do not see where Greg is saving anyone money but tampering with an existing auction. Nothing more to it. I am all about honesty and integrity in this hobby which is why I will refrain commenting on others in this post.

The card is in a PSA 7 holder graded by PSA. And I do not see anything wrong with that nor did PSA see anything when grading. There are many cards out there that have had stains etc removed. Would others like it if some of us start digging into some cards that are posted on this board. Lets put it this way there would be a lot of problems if so. There are plenty of scans and high end cards on this board that have been tampered with or changed holders.

This is much different then what people like Battlefield are doing to the public by artificially changing scans to sell a card.

The real question that some of you super sleuths should be asking is who comes up with a $75k price tag on a card in a fictitiously inflated market.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Hopefully Ed, we can discuss and possibly even disagree without devolving into name calling unlike some other people in this thread. Seems like you're the kind of guy who can do that.

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If people feel that a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 then the back story on the card isn't going to matter to them. So in essence it's a self-correcting issue. If the back story bothers you, then you wanted to know, and Greg did the community a service. If you feel the grade absolutely clears any concerns about the card, which you imply (and there are many who agree with that sentiment, just ask the owner of the Diamondbacks.) then the back story doesn't matter and so Greg's post didn't matter.