Graig Kreindler's Chief Bender painting - All Hail the Chief!

[bxb]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I think it points to his body on both. I think the ribbon is what's pointing down on the Meyers photo

Yea, I think you're right. I stand corrected.

[edhans]

They're different logos, at least. Look closely at the elephant's legs, tusks, mouth and tail and you'll see what I mean.

[sac_bunt]

Originally Posted by edhans

They're different logos, at least. Look closely at the elephant's legs, tusks, mouth and tail and you'll see what I mean.

Ok thanks. IMO they are more similar then not.

[T206Jim]

Thanks for the interest guys. I believe the sweaters are one and the same, but we can each draw our own conclusions.

Does anyone have any information on the questions I have asked? Other photos of Bender in a sweater, copies of mine with a firm date on back or from a dated newspaper? Any info on the ribbon? I believe that although the trim and cap stripes may have been black the sweaters were blue, any confirmation on this?

Thanks!

[Kawika]

I took a look at the New York Times archives to see what I could learn. Unfortunately I didn't see anything that suggested why Bender was wearing a ribbon on his sweater or what the colors would have been. Only thing I found of interest was the usage of the same Bender image (cropped) in the October 25, 1911 edition which followed game four.

[JollyElm]

I'm sure you did the same web search that everyone reading this thread is now doing. The only relevant image that appears is a Mitchell & Ness version of a very similar sweater (the elephant is positioned at a distinct angle that isn't consistent with your photo, etc.). Their sweater is dark blue. Perhaps you can find a way to contact them and ask how and why they determined the color of the 1911 sweater to be that shade of blue?

[clydepepper]

This is without a doubt the longest sweater discussion I've ever read, much less a sweater with an elephant on it.

At this point, should we call Guinness or call for a Guinness?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by sac_bunt

Ok thanks. IMO they are more similar then not.

similar doesn't cut it they have to be identical. They are, to me, clearly not the same logo. The gap between the front legs is VERY different. The distance between the lower tusk and the jaw is VERY different. The length of the upper portion of the trunk is significantly different. You can't have the same sweater with ANY discrepancies let alone ones this large.

[Bpm0014]

In Glory of Their Times there is a pic of Bender in this sweater if someone wants to scan it.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

similar doesn't cut it they have to be identical. They are, to me, clearly not the same logo. The gap between the front legs is VERY different. The distance between the lower tusk and the jaw is VERY different. The length of the upper portion of the trunk is significantly different. You can't have the same sweater with ANY discrepancies let alone ones this large.

Here is the explanation:

[T206Jim]

Thanks for the insight Mark. You more clearly and definitively stated the point I attempted to make earlier about the difference being in the clarity of the photos. Would SABR happen to have any other photos from 1911 of Bender, or any other Athletic for that matter, in a sweater with a ribbon or anything else tied to a buttonhole?

[bmarlowe1]

Jim - Not that I know of.