Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by packs

You haven't made any effort to do anything but dismiss racism.

and you are apparently ignorant of black culture in inner cities and poor communities. crime is celebrated, education dismissed as 'for nerds and white people" heroes are Scarface, drug dealers, rappers who celebrate criminal activity and pro athletes. Those who fail to become the latter have grown up in a culture that tells them that to fit in and be part of the group they should embrace crime, selling drugs, stealing...etc Parents are more likely to be separated with no father interaction than any other group, black parents are also the least likely to take a direct interest in their child's education, more likely to overspend on vanity objects over groceries and spend the highest % of income on a vehicle than any other demographic. that's not good.

when you make up under 15% of the population at large but comprise 37% of the prison population, either you think we live in 1970's South Africa, or there is a cultural problem at work in the black community. My friend LP and I were talking last night about this and he said it's sad how the culture of the black community has fallen over the last 20 years to where it is now.

I,personally, think it's what happens when govt tells an entire group of people that they don't have to perform, they will save them a certain number of slots just because of their race. (not to mention the impact of generational welfare. nobody taught these families how to fish, they just kept giving them fish)


but go ahead, call us all racists from your lily white ivory tower because of what some sheltered academic sociologist told you. (hint, it isn't science no matter how hard they try to pretend it is)

[packs]

You guys are unbelievable. What do you have against admitting we have a racism problem in this country we've never overcome? Do you think there is something shameful about recognizing a failure? Because I happen to think the opposite. It is shameful to ignore a problem like systemic racism. Do you disregard the Civil Rights movement as some big to do? Or can you at least admit there was a problem then, even if you won't admit it now?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

You guys are unbelievable. What do you have against admitting we have a racism problem in this country we've never overcome? Do you think there is something shameful about recognizing a failure? Because I happen to think the opposite. It is shameful to ignore a problem like systemic racism. Do you disregard the Civil Rights movement as some big to do? Or can you at least admit there was a problem then, even if you won't admit it now?

You sit there and talk about disproportionate numbers when it comes to arrests and convictions, so let me give you another disproportionate number. The national high school graduation rate for black males is 47% compared to nearly 75% for white males. Why aren't they graduating? Are the schools racist too forcing them to drop out? What do you think happens to them? It's the same thing happens to the white male drop outs - a majority of them end up in the prison system. No, Packs, we don't deny that racism exists. All we're saying is that they are a product of their own decisions (everybody is for that matter). Nobody is making them drop out. Their dropout rate has nothing to do with racism, but their dropout rate has a lot to do with why the arrest and conviction rates are disproportionate.

You're entitled to your opinion, just as we are. Here's the difference. Your opinion is based on your feelings. Our opinion is based on facts.

[packs]

Paint with a broader brush why don't you? I've been discussing police and their attitudes towards minorities because that is precisely what Kaepernick is protesting. What you're talking about is plain old geriatric racism and I would prefer not to hear anymore of it so I'll simply ignore you now.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Paint with a broader brush why don't you? I've been discussing police and their attitudes towards minorities because that is precisely what Kaepernick is protesting. What you're talking about is plain old geriatric racism and I would prefer not to hear anymore of it so I'll simply ignore you now.

If it were one police department or several police departments in different areas, you might have a valid point. But that's not the case. The disproportionate arrests and convictions you speak of happen in every city, in every county, in every state across this nation. Are all police departments across the nation wrongfully targeting black people, that the numbers are disproportionate to white people? Or maybe is it because black people are committing a disproportionate number of the crimes and that's why they're arrested and convicted? Maybe it's not a police problem, maybe it's a behavioural problem???

And the question I asked was valid. Why is the dropout rate nearly double for black males than it is for white males? It's very relevant to the topic of discussion. My contention is that the dropout rate directly relates to the poverty rate, which directly relates to the crime rate (those arrests and convictions you speak of). Why are they dropping out? Is someone making them? Do the educators have an attitude towards minorities like you say the police do? Again, it's a fair question.

[EvilKing00]

Is affermative action rasism? Is it fair that a company has to hire a minority over a white person even if the white person is better qualified?

2 people vying for same job both lets say are in the low income bracket and lets say the white guy has more qualifications for that job dosnt get it cause of his skin color. Sounds rasist, no?

Agian, from my piont of view i hire who can make me money, but i just always thought that affirmative action wasnt right and never made sense.

[steve B]

Yes, there are still problems.

The civil rights movement in the 60's was right to try to correct what they could. And there are some things today that need fixing.

But....I find it also racist to say as many liberals do something along the lines of " These poor people can't fend for themselves in any way unless we give them our help."

Guess what? Nearly every group in this country has been oppressed and fairly seriously at different times. Nearly all of them eventually prospered by becoming part of the system and embracing stuff like laws and education.

Have I had advantages because of who I am? Probably, but it's hard to separate the ones from being from a really solid family and ones I might have had naturally. I know a few people who have started with more and done worse, and some who have started with less and done better. I do know that pretty much all my failings have been because of me.

Kapernick was as far as I can find an excellent student, and gifted athlete. Both of which got him advantages and opportunities that wouldn't have been open to me. (Passable student and moderately athletic)

Steve B

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

and you are apparently ignorant of black culture in inner cities and poor communities. crime is celebrated, education dismissed as 'for nerds and white people" heroes are Scarface, drug dealers, rappers who celebrate criminal activity and pro athletes. Those who fail to become the latter have grown up in a culture that tells them that to fit in and be part of the group they should embrace crime, selling drugs, stealing...etc Parents are more likely to be separated with no father interaction than any other group, black parents are also the least likely to take a direct interest in their child's education, more likely to overspend on vanity objects over groceries and spend the highest % of income on a vehicle than any other demographic. that's not good.

when you make up under 15% of the population at large but comprise 37% of the prison population, either you think we live in 1970's South Africa, or there is a cultural problem at work in the black community. My friend LP and I were talking last night about this and he said it's sad how the culture of the black community has fallen over the last 20 years to where it is now.

I,personally, think it's what happens when govt tells an entire group of people that they don't have to perform, they will save them a certain number of slots just because of their race. (not to mention the impact of generational welfare. nobody taught these families how to fish, they just kept giving them fish)


but go ahead, call us all racists from your lily white ivory tower because of what some sheltered academic sociologist told you. (hint, it isn't science no matter how hard they try to pretend it is)

Living in a city where the population is about 48/40/12 of white/black/other, it's an interesting perspective. If you talk about the root cause of these problems with working black FAMILIES, you find the views similar to what you expressed above. If you discuss this with single black parents or kids from single black parents, it's runs more along the lines of "packs" comments (maybe a 'pack' mentality?). Though where it starts to diverge again is around their views of education. Not counting the typical bobble-head fashioned responses you get from those illuminated by Duke (remembering the Duke 88), of course.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

and you are apparently ignorant of black culture in inner cities and poor communities. crime is celebrated, education dismissed as 'for nerds and white people" heroes are Scarface, drug dealers, rappers who celebrate criminal activity and pro athletes. Those who fail to become the latter have grown up in a culture that tells them that to fit in and be part of the group they should embrace crime, selling drugs, stealing...etc Parents are more likely to be separated with no father interaction than any other group, black parents are also the least likely to take a direct interest in their child's education, more likely to overspend on vanity objects over groceries and spend the highest % of income on a vehicle than any other demographic. that's not good.

Wow, if you could've worked eating watermelon and fried chicken in with all these other unquantifiable claims you would have won racist stereotype bingo. Have fun at your Klan rally this weekend.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dgo71

...eating watermelon and fried chicken...

Wow! Talk about your stereotyping?

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Wow! Talk about your stereotyping?

Yeah, you got me. Clearly I'm the racist here.

Of all your attempts to deflect the conversation away from the real issue this post is by far the most laughable.

[Cliff Bowman]

I have a question for dgo71 and packs. We all know about Philando Castille, Trayvon Martin, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, and Laquan McDonald because you can't turn on a TV, computer, or radio without being bombarded about them. How many black men that were murdered by other black men in the last few years can the two of you name? I did all of those out of memory, so no cheating and researching names.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have a question for dgo71 and packs. We all know about Philando Castille, Trayvon Martin, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, and Laquan McDonald because you can't turn on a TV, computer, or radio without being bombarded about them. How many black men that were murdered by other black men in the last few years can the two of you name? I did all of those out of memory, so no cheating and researching names.

Strawman argument much? How about instead, how many unarmed white men can you name that have been killed by police while surrendering? Take your time, I'll wait.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Strawman argument much? How about instead, how many unarmed white men can you name that have been killed by police while surrendering? Take your time, I'll wait.

Who was killed by the police while surrendering? I can list several people who were killed by the police for FTC - failure to comply. Do you really believe your own BS?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have a question for dgo71 and packs. We all know about Philando Castille, Trayvon Martin, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, and Laquan McDonald because you can't turn on a TV, computer, or radio without being bombarded about them. How many black men that were murdered by other black men in the last few years can the two of you name? I did all of those out of memory, so no cheating and researching names.

People dont care whos being killed, they care about who is doing the killing.

But yeah, like i said black victims matter too. There are a lot people in jail who did crimes against black people.


Trayvon Martin i really dont think should be classified like the group of black victims that are named that died in the hands of police. He was not killed by a police offer for one. Its a shame taxpayer money was spent on the trial that had no chance for a conviction. The guy that killed Travyon is not a saint and appears to have a lot of issues as well.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have a question for dgo71 and packs. We all know about Philando Castille, Trayvon Martin, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, and Laquan McDonald because you can't turn on a TV, computer, or radio without being bombarded about them. How many black men that were murdered by other black men in the last few years can the two of you name? I did all of those out of memory, so no cheating and researching names.

just to add - there are more whites killed by police than blacks, and its rarely ever talked about. Yes there are more % of whites in the usa so that souldnt be expected.

heres a little article on it from a liberal paper - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ut-minority-d/

you rarely here about these whites killed by cops though - people need to wake up and take responsibility for their own actions

[EvilKing00]

after 168 posts id just like to remind everyone a part of the 1st post in this thread - "Maybe just a vote and no posts so we dont get too heated up!"

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Yeah, you got me. Clearly I'm the racist here.

Of all your attempts to deflect the conversation away from the real issue this post is by far the most laughable.

I haven't deflected anything. The only deflection is my question going unanswered. Packs is not intellectually equiped to answer it, so here's your shot. Why do black male high school students have a dropout rate that is twice the rate for white male high school students? You (at least I think it was you, it was someone) mentioned earlier in the thread about blacks not having the same opportunities as whites. Seems like they're not taking advantage of their greatest opportunity - an education.

[dgo71]

If you read these texts and still can't understand why Kaepernick did what he did then there's nothing that will allow you to see that a real problem exists. Is this just one example? Yes. Is this the only case of this happening? Certainly not. Is even one instance such as this unacceptable? Absolutely. Tell me minorities in this area had the same opportunities as white people under this clown's watch.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/8/8573497/...-police-racism

[jhs5120]

Institutional racism undoubtably exists in police departments around the world.

When american citizens tried to protest this egregious bias against African Americans they were met with, "why can't they protest peacefully?" or "riots only make things worse, they should protest without causing damage." Well, Colin Kaepernick found a way to protest peacefully. I welcome the effort.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Wow, if you could've worked eating watermelon and fried chicken in with all these other unquantifiable claims you would have won racist stereotype bingo. Have fun at your Klan rally this weekend.

Just to put a tiny touch of humor out there.........

Boston area Busing program potluck dinner late 70's Hosted in the suburban town. Guy from Roxbury brings...........Yep fried chicken and watermelon. When the PTA ladies get all flustered and he hears "how could you?!" He simply says "What? I like this stuff!"

He would be very unlikely to get a Klan membership.

People are just people, and sometimes normal for them matches someone elses stereotype.

Steve B
PS. Awesome fried chicken, he made it himself. Fantastic cook.