Heritage Results

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is so simple. Humans are turned on by having what is deemed to be the best.

Originally Posted by Leon

Twenty somethings minting money

The issue is the phrase "what is deemed" and how "humans" can be so easily lured into what one person's opinion may be.

I can only imagine the power a card grader must feel when s/he ultimately assigns a 10 to a piece of cardboard, turning it into a winning lottery ticket. Must be intoxicating - how could that fact alone not blur judgment?

[Snapolit1]

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

[Leon]

It is literally like hitting the lottery if you get the coveted "10". And it is a 100% subjective number given out by a for profit business. Nah, I am sure everything is fine. That's where I am putting my money...the next Rose in a 10 holder is all mine.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Leon

And it is a 100% subjective number given out by a for profit business.

Says it all IMO

[Yoda]

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded. Given the final auction price on the Rose RC, I certainly hope Joe Orlando gives final approval for a gem mint grade on a high value card, if he doesn't already.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded.

That's exactly the point - that there is this much money being committed without that minimum level of transparency is shocking to me. I would bet that transparency of the process would actually diminish the value of the product being sold -- why else would they hide it?

[Snapolit1]

In any kind of "scientific" endeavor, consistency across graders would be considered de riguer. For example, entire forensic science have gone kaput when people have devised studies to blind a decent sample of reviewers to see what kind of consistency exists. All of a sudden one guys grade 1 is another guys 3 and another gal's 5.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

That's exactly the point - that there is this much money being committed without that minimum level of transparency is shocking to me. I would bet that transparency of the process would actually diminish the value of the product being sold -- why else would they hide it?

Transparency of the grading process, or the subjectivity of such, is not the elephant in the room. How they authenticate older cards is.

What techniques and tools is PSA using to stay one step ahead of the counterfeiters? This process needs to be transparent, because it will lend credibility to the PSA brand.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder, for example, at PSA how many graders have to examine and concur before a gem mint 10 grade is awarded. Given the final auction price on the Rose RC, I certainly hope Joe Orlando gives final approval for a gem mint grade on a high value card, if he doesn't already.

I doubt very seriously Joe Orlando looks at a single card. When CGC used to be booming, I knew without uncertainty that Steve Borock looked at every single "worthwhile" comic that came thru CGC. I don't think Joe Oralndo looks at anything. I see him more as a figurehead.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I doubt very seriously Joe Orlando looks at a single card. When CGC used to be booming, I knew without uncertainty that Steve Borock looked at every single "worthwhile" comic that came thru CGC. I don't think Joe Oralndo looks at anything. I see him more as a figurehead.

I obviously have no idea what actually happens at grading companies like PSA, etc. However, I would think for six figure cards, somebody high up, maybe even Joe Orlando, looks at the card. Obviously someone like Joe is probably not a grading expert, and he has to trust his grading team. However, PSA also has to back that card and grade. If there is some obvious flaw like a crease that is somehow missed by the graders on a PSA 10, and that card is resold after grading, the new owners can come to PSA for compensation on a mis-grade. This probably wouldn't matter for most cards, but for really expensive cards, that's a lot of liability for TPG's that perhaps someone like Joe may want to take a peek at the card before it goes out.

I agree with most that the minute differences between a PSA 9 and 10 make the prices for a 10 seem absurd. I don't collect 10's, and I think the only 10 in my collection is a card from the 1980s that I purchased in a 10 for twenty bucks because it was one of my favorite cards from that era. (and that card is never going to rise in value.) However, there are some people with a lot of money who all they buy are the best of the best. I think I read in some article from Heritage's magazine Intelligent Collector that Ken Kendrick has stated he only collects the absolute best cards. So be it. That doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate market for cards in that stratosphere. There are some really rich people that buy art just because some art critic or dealer say that this is a masterpiece, and is worth $$$$. However, to us, that art looks like something my five year old could draw. However, these folks still shell out the dollars, and ask where they can buy more of those. When prices for cards hit six figures, it's so out of my means, it's just rich people buying things rich people buy to me, and that's all there is to it, with reasonable value rarely part of the equation.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How about the possibility that the card was submitted by the guy down the hall who just bought it at auction and a bump will pay his kids college tuitions in one fell swoop, or it was submitted by a client you'd really like a lot more business from. Human nature suggests those possibilities as well.

++. This is absolutely going on. If I had some high value important cards for bumps, I would never submit them myself, I'm just a newbie to PSA. I'd find the most influential submitter and give them a fee to submit them for me.

This is how our economy works. Those that have the relationships, carry the hammer. No different than our political parties.