Old Card Grading a boondoggle???

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Eye Appeal and technical grade are not the same thing. This is a concept that many don't seem to be able to grasp. Eye appeal can be one component of technical grade but that is it.

no we grasp it, we just disagree with it (as I explained above). There seems to be two markets that grading applies to, but it favors the investor over the hobbyist.

[glynparson]

I know many collectors that buy graded cards this whole snobbery by some against those that like to buy nice high grade cards I dont understand. But it sure seems those that care less about condition have this attitude and often mistaken air of superiority like only they are true collectors. It's just not true. Now are the investors going to gravitate towards high end material of course that's where the money generally is to be made but that does not mean everyone that likes high end cards is an investor. As for eye appeal being the only thing you think should matter go ahead it is a nice way to build an attractive collection at cheaper prices but to denegrade someone who prefers both or prefers technical grade just isn't right.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I know many collectors that buy graded cards this whole snobbery by some against those that like to buy nice high grade cards I dont understand. But it sure seems those that care less about condition have this attitude and often mistaken air of superiority like only they are true collectors. It's just not true. Now are the investors going to gravitate towards high end material of course that's where the money generally is to be made but that does not mean everyone that likes high end cards is an investor. As for eye appeal being the only thing you think should matter go ahead it is a nice way to build an attractive collection at cheaper prices but to denegrade someone who prefers both or prefers technical grade just isn't right.

Alas, even baseball card collecting isn't immune from class warfare of sorts...

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I know many collectors that buy graded cards this whole snobbery by some against those that like to buy nice high grade cards I dont understand. But it sure seems those that care less about condition have this attitude and often mistaken air of superiority like only they are true collectors. It's just not true. Now are the investors going to gravitate towards high end material of course that's where the money generally is to be made but that does not mean everyone that likes high end cards is an investor. As for eye appeal being the only thing you think should matter go ahead it is a nice way to build an attractive collection at cheaper prices but to denegrade someone who prefers both or prefers technical grade just isn't right.

please point out where I made any negative comments about investors? (hint: i didn't)

I don't care why anyone buys cards, if they wanna put em in their bike spokes or hoard them like gold. My point is that the number of grading companies and the variability of the opinions makes the "a PSA 8 is worth XYZ" seem a little dubious. it made me wonder if the entire grading thing was created to separate collectors from their $$$. I never intended to slight any individuals or groups at all.

people get so defensive about simple questions....

[steve B]

Having been around before grading, I can say that it has been a big benefit to the hobby. The nonsense that was common before grading was excessive, and usually made little sense.

That 71 topps with the obvious marker touchups? That's just how the ink bled through to the sides. (Funny how it only did it at the corners)

That 33 Goudey the guy calls near mint despite the rounded corners and crease? It's "near mint for its age"

I wasn't a big fan of grading when it began, and I'm ambivalent now. Except that it made buying over a distance much easier, and made buying easier for investors. Some of those investors do in fact know a lot about cards. Just as some low end collectors don't. Yes, investing and easier sales either by mail or by internet have increased prices for the top condition stuff.(and in some cases held it down for the lesser stuff) But those rising prices have made a lot more cards available to everyone. How much great stuff would still be in attics or been trashed or recycled because it wasn't worth much?

Everyone in the hobby has a place, it's not necessarily the place I want to have, but it's all important.

Steve B

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by steve B

Having been around before grading, I can say that it has been a big benefit to the hobby. The nonsense that was common before grading was excessive, and usually made little sense.

That 71 topps with the obvious marker touchups? That's just how the ink bled through to the sides. (Funny how it only did it at the corners)

That 33 Goudey the guy calls near mint despite the rounded corners and crease? It's "near mint for its age"

I wasn't a big fan of grading when it began, and I'm ambivalent now. Except that it made buying over a distance much easier, and made buying easier for investors. Some of those investors do in fact know a lot about cards. Just as some low end collectors don't. Yes, investing and easier sales either by mail or by internet have increased prices for the top condition stuff.(and in some cases held it down for the lesser stuff) But those rising prices have made a lot more cards available to everyone. How much great stuff would still be in attics or been trashed or recycled because it wasn't worth much?

This reminds me of this post of mine a few months ago from a similar thread, and the accompanying article from 1973 by Lionel Carter, one of the few collectors back then who had a modern attitude toward card condition:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217914

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

This reminds me of this post of mine a few months ago from a similar thread, and the accompanying article from 1973 by Lionel Carter, one of the few collectors back then who had a modern attitude toward card condition:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217914

Lionel was definitely modern concerning condition, but old school as far as collecting as an investment.

Brian

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Lionel was definitely modern concerning condition, but old school as far as collecting as an investment.

Brian

True. He stopped collecting new cards in the 1980s when the prices skyrocketed, and he said it was no longer fun.

[Leon]

It was a fair question. Answering late is fair, almost everything is fair, it's a chatboard.

And in general, just remember; every member is liable for what they say.

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

please point out where I made any negative comments about investors? (hint: i didn't)

I don't care why anyone buys cards, if they wanna put em in their bike spokes or hoard them like gold. My point is that the number of grading companies and the variability of the opinions makes the "a PSA 8 is worth XYZ" seem a little dubious. it made me wonder if the entire grading thing was created to separate collectors from their $$$. I never intended to slight any individuals or groups at all.

people get so defensive about simple questions....

[the 'stache]

Ok, now I'm dying to know. What's the flaw with the Pastorius brown Hindu? I took the card into Photoshop, inverted it, and I can't see any clear indication of a major crease, or wrinkle, from the scan. I see two spots, one on the left border by his ear, and another on the right border by his glove, that could be paper loss. But nothing jumps out at me.

Edit: wait, is that a pin hole on the left side?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, now I'm dying to know. What's the flaw with the Pastorius brown Hindu? I took the card into Photoshop, inverted it, and I can't see any clear indication of a major crease, or wrinkle, from the scan. I see two spots, one on the left border by his ear, and another on the right border by his glove, that could be paper loss. But nothing jumps out at me.

Edit: wait, is that a pin hole on the left side?

Hi Bill,

It was soaked and removed from an album or something and there are a
couple of tears in the paper on the back.
Pastorius%20Back.jpg

It was in the SGC holder when I purchased it but it was previously in PSA
holder with the same grade.
8777640.jpg

[the 'stache]

Thanks, Patrick. It presents beautifully. That's a hell of a nice looking card for the grade it received.