the list (of criminals) is revealed

[Iron Horse]

Seems to me that SGC should pack it up.
How can a grading company not only grade their own cards (likely over grade) then list them in auction and the shill their own lots.
It's bad enough when an individual does it but a grading company????
Ruben Baghdassarian

[Dpeck100]

And people are worried about the grading company that has 90% market share going out of business.

SGC has less then 3%.

If any of these revelations are a death sentence for a third party grader it glaringly obvious that it's the company that's owner is caught up in this mess.

How unreal. You grade the cards, you sell them through auction houses and you enhance the price with illegal bidding.

Haha

You can't make this stuff up. We might be seeing these fellas in an episode of American Greed.

If I had a large amount of funds tied up in SGC cards this would make me sick to my stomach.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

And people are worried about the grading company that has 90% market share going out of business.

SGC has less then 3%.

If any of these revelations are a death sentence for a third party grader it glaringly obvious that it's the company that's owner is caught up in this mess.

How unreal. You grade the cards, you sell them through auction houses and you enhance the price with illegal bidding.

Haha

You can't make this stuff up. We might be seeing these fellas in an episode of American Greed.

Yeah there seems to be a huge conflict of interest.........who is ready to argue with me again that SGC are worth the same as PSA for the exact same card in same numerical holder.....still not sure on B/S/T people ask and wont sell unless get a PSA 4 price for a SGC 4 card with all things being equal with the card .....and usually we get an 'off to ebay' or 'ill keep it (because dont want to sell at market price) '
comment..

Boca Raton, has a great homestead exemption like all of Florida...that's why OJ moved down to Florida

You know what is most infuriating about this mess?! Last spring I taught a card collecting class to my students. Many members on here donated cards/supplies to us and they LOVED it. It was collecting in its purest form and was great to see. I know there are thousands of honest collectors out there and I will convey that to these kids......but I do have a few questions:

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by Snowman5520

You know what is most infuriating about this mess?! Last spring I taught a card collecting class to my students. Many members on here donated cards/supplies to us and they LOVED it. It was collecting in its purest form and was great to see. I know there are thousands of honest collectors out there and I will convey that to these kids......but I do have a few questions:

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

Just tell them that your classroom is make-believe.

[tiger8mush]

So much shilling and scam, from ONE auction house during a small window in time. Imagine if that window were opened up a little wider, and threw a few more auction houses into the mix? I bet a lot of people are hoping that doesn't happen ...

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

So much shilling and scam, from ONE auction house during a small window in time. Imagine if that window were opened up a little wider, and threw a few more auction houses into the mix? I bet a lot of people are hoping that doesn't happen ...

I think it will. It's the very reason the silence from some board members is deafening.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Snowman5520

You know what is most infuriating about this mess?! Last spring I taught a card collecting class to my students. Many members on here donated cards/supplies to us and they LOVED it. It was collecting in its purest form and was great to see. I know there are thousands of honest collectors out there and I will convey that to these kids......but I do have a few questions:

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

Tough question, but tell them this type of thing has been going on for years in all areas of the world and that 2 wrongs don't make a right and the fact these people were caught.

Reinforce the love about collecting and not about making money and the hobby will survive.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Snowman5520

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

Because it can be just a hobby if you want it to be. I never had any illusions that something some people are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on would be all sunshine and lollipops. I could care less Peter helped a friend out, SGC and PSA names are on the list, or Allen tried to pull a Wolf of Wall Street. I collect baseball cards. I like my signed cards in PSA slabs. I like my unsigned cards in SGC slabs. When place a bid in a AH or on eBay I place it knowing that the item is both worth that price to me and that I expect to pay that amount. If I win it for less, it's just extra syrup on my pancakes. I have nothing against those outraged by this, card doctors, coaches corner, or any of the hundreds of other hobby villains. I could just care less, I'd rather be looking for the next card on my list.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Because it can be just a hobby if you want it to be. I never had any illusions that something some people are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on would be all sunshine and lollipops. I could care less Peter helped a friend out, SGC and PSA names are on the list, or Allen tried to pull a Wolf of Wall Street. I collect baseball cards. I like my signed cards in PSA slabs. I like my unsigned cards in SGC slabs. When place a bid in a AH or on eBay I place it knowing that the item is both worth that price to me and that I expect to pay that amount. If I win it for less, it's just extra syrup on my pancakes. I have nothing against those outraged by this, card doctors, coaches corner, or any of the hundreds of other hobby villains. I could just care less, I'd rather be looking for the next card on my list.

And if you discovered one of your slabbed signatures was doctored? You could care less? Employees were willing to do what it took to make more money by shilling - would they authenticate a doctored signature to make more money?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Because it can be just a hobby if you want it to be. I never had any illusions that something some people are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on would be all sunshine and lollipops. I could care less Peter helped a friend out, SGC and PSA names are on the list, or Allen tried to pull a Wolf of Wall Street. I collect baseball cards. I like my signed cards in PSA slabs. I like my unsigned cards in SGC slabs. When place a bid in a AH or on eBay I place it knowing that the item is both worth that price to me and that I expect to pay that amount. If I win it for less, it's just extra syrup on my pancakes. I have nothing against those outraged by this, card doctors, coaches corner, or any of the hundreds of other hobby villains. I could just care less, I'd rather be looking for the next card on my list.

The only problem then is that your next card is going to cost you more money because the market for years was artificially inflated by the shillers in these auctions. Even if they won their own lot back it created a false market.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Because it can be just a hobby if you want it to be. I never had any illusions that something some people are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on would be all sunshine and lollipops. I could care less Peter helped a friend out, SGC and PSA names are on the list, or Allen tried to pull a Wolf of Wall Street. I collect baseball cards. I like my signed cards in PSA slabs. I like my unsigned cards in SGC slabs. When place a bid in a AH or on eBay I place it knowing that the item is both worth that price to me and that I expect to pay that amount. If I win it for less, it's just extra syrup on my pancakes. I have nothing against those outraged by this, card doctors, coaches corner, or any of the hundreds of other hobby villains. I could just care less, I'd rather be looking for the next card on my list.

See R312 thread. I found my next card last night and am looking for the next one!! All of this thread is a good learning lesson.

[bobbyw8469]

There isn't one person on any of these boards that would have withstood the hazing I took and never once complained or went to the mods. I obviously have a set. Thank you very much.]

Uhmmmm.....you don't have the lock in that department Davey boy! Trust me. There was someone before you that was hazed and never went to the mods.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Snowman5520

You know what is most infuriating about this mess?! Last spring I taught a card collecting class to my students. Many members on here donated cards/supplies to us and they LOVED it. It was collecting in its purest form and was great to see. I know there are thousands of honest collectors out there and I will convey that to these kids......but I do have a few questions:

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

There probably isn't any reason to explain it to them. This barely made a peep in the mainstream media so unless the kids are following a forum like net54 they probably haven't heard about it.

[ullmandds]

I'm disappointed...I am...but in reality all aspects of life are filled with corruption. The best at a given skill/sport/vocation is almost always flawed in some way.

So we now all know for sure what we pretty much knew already. People will go to jail...some will leave the hobby...most wont. Many reputations will be trashed and ethics/morals questioned.

It seems to me the climate was/is that pretty much everyone is doing it...so if everyone is founds to be doing the same bad things...the repercussions wont be so bad as if it were just a few.

Hasn't something like this happened in just about every other type of collecting known to man.

I still love the cards...I always will. So now I know for sure what I pretty much already knew...I have been overpaying for my "stuff" for years.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I'm disappointed...I am...but in reality all aspects of life are filled with corruption. The best at a given skill/sport/vocation is almost always flawed in some way.

So we now all know for sure what we pretty much knew already. People will go to jail...some will leave the hobby...most wont. Many reputations will be trashed and ethics/morals questioned.

It seems to me the climate was/is that pretty much everyone is doing it...so if everyone is founds to be doing the same bad things...the repercussions wont be so bad as if it were just a few.

Hasn't something like this happened in just about every other type of collecting known to man.

This sort of thing happens a lot in many places, such as Russia.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

And people are worried about the grading company that has 90% market share going out of business.

SGC has less then 3%.

If any of these revelations are a death sentence for a third party grader it glaringly obvious that it's the company that's owner is caught up in this mess.

How unreal. You grade the cards, you sell them through auction houses and you enhance the price with illegal bidding.

Haha

You can't make this stuff up. We might be seeing these fellas in an episode of American Greed.

If I had a large amount of funds tied up in SGC cards this would make me sick to my stomach.

Selective reading? Comprehension problem?

There are just as many PSA names on the list as there are SGC.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Selective reading? Comprehension problem?

There are just as many PSA names on the list as there are SGC.

You see an owner?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

You see an owner?

If someone at a company is breaking the law, does it matter if it's an employee or an owner?

You're free to talk about it over here on this board. Let's see you go start a thread about it over on CU, and call out the PSA names that are involved. No, you want do that because you and have no balls! Grow a set!

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If someone at a company is breaking the law, does it matter if it's an employee or an owner?

You're free to talk about it over here on this board. Let's see you go start a thread about it over on CU, and call out the PSA names that are involved. No, you want do that because you and have no balls! Grow a set!

There is a huge difference between an employee and the owner.

Use some common sense.

In terms of starting a thread on CU about it. You are right I won't. But obviously you recognize my name from there and I have taken on all comers. That is a fact.

There isn't one person on any of these boards that would have withstood the hazing I took and never once complained or went to the mods. I obviously have a set. Thank you very much.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

In terms of starting a thread on CU about it. You are right I won't.

Of course you won't. You have no balls. If you did, you would call out Reznikoff, Keating, Rullo, etc.

Why will you do it over here, but not over there?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

There is a huge difference between an employee and the owner.

41 Apr‐07 1512 Joe Orlando (consignor) Bill Mastro and Andrew Filipowski (shill bidders) Rob Rosen (Winner) $85,245.00 (winning price) $19,099.00 (loss amount)

Now what do you say?

[PM770]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

You see an owner?

Isn't PSA a publicly traded company?

While their stock holdings are likely too small to be reportable to the SEC so we could never know, isn't it likely that members of this so-called "Board of Experts" own some stock?

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by PM770

Isn't PSA a publicly traded company?

While their stock holdings are likely too small to be reportable to the SEC so we could never know, isn't it likely that members of this so-called "Board of Experts" own some stock?

Yes, PSA is a subsidiary of Collector's Universe-a NASDAQ publicly traded stock that is up for the day

[1880nonsports]

I corrected my post. I was writing as it was posted.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Yes, PSA is a subsidiary of Collector's Universe-a NASDAQ publicly traded stock that is up for the day

The stock is currently up as you said. Let's face it if SGC were a publicly traded company the shares would have gapped down 40% on this news.

To the person who suggested employees may own shares. That is probably true. But just like I work for a bank and could own shares in it, I am not the principle owner and have no ability to control what goes on at the company.

A far cry from the actual owner of a private company who directly calls the shots.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Iron Horse

Seems to me that SGC should pack it up.
How can a grading company not only grade their own cards (likely over grade) then list them in auction and the shill their own lots.
It's bad enough when an individual does it but a grading company????

+1 Agreed! I am not sure why but I feel 100x worse knowing that the head of a TPG would do this. Auctioneers are like mechanics...I try to find the ones who will rip you off the least, but the heads of SGC?!?! pretty ridiculous.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ksabet

+1 Agreed! I am not sure why but I feel 100x worse knowing that the head of a TPG would do this. Auctioneers are like mechanics...I try to find the ones who will rip you off the least, but the heads of SGC?!?! pretty ridiculous.

same with politicians....I vote for the guy/gal that will steal the least

[Stonepony]

Forman shills
April 2007
Lot 464 1953 B Mantle SGC 88
Lot 476 1955 T Koufax SGC 92
Lot 1111 1911 E94 Crawford PSA 8
Lot 1354 1934 Goudey uncut sheet
Lot 1379 1953 T B Russell SGC 96

June 2007
Lot 1035 1964 T Giants F Robinson SGC 96
Lot 1678 1938 PSA graded collection