OT: Greatest Living Four

[Jlighter]

Bench is not top 4 living, they had him there for the Reds fans, but I don't know why they didn't choose Frank Robinson.

Mays, Aaron, Koufax(I'm biased), Pedro

[celoknob]

Koufax had one of the best five year runs ever but if I was picking one pitcher I would definitely choose Randy Johnson, Maddux or Seaver as having greater careers.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by celoknob

Koufax had one of the best five year runs ever but if I was picking one pitcher I would definitely choose Randy Johnson, Maddux or Seaver as having greater careers.

I think it's tough to make this decision without having seen the players during their careers. I'm also biased towards Seaver as a Mets fan who grew up on him but also remember the long downside of his career -- which didn't exist for Koufax thus the strong memeories he left in fans' minds.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think it's tough to make this decision without having seen the players during their careers. I'm also biased towards Seaver as a Mets fan who grew up on him but also remember the long downside of his career -- which didn't exist for Koufax thus the strong memeories he left in fans' minds.

Jeff - here's a few Seaver stats few people are aware of: 1) After his first 15 seasons that cover approximately 4,000 innings pitched, his lifetime ERA was an incredible 2.60!!! Talk about an unparalleled combination of peak value and longevity. 2) Along with Walter Johnson, Seaver is one of only 2 pitchers EVER who won 300+ games, post 3,000+ strikeouts and have a sub-3.00 lifetime ERA...... wow!

Joe T.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Jeff - here's a few Seaver stats few people are aware of: 1) After his first 15 seasons that cover approximately 4,000 innings pitched, his lifetime ERA was an incredible 2.60!!! Talk about an unparalleled combination of peak value and longevity. 2) Along with Walter Johnson, Seaver is one of only 2 pitchers EVER who won 300+ games, post 3,000+ strikeouts and have a sub-3.00 lifetime ERA...... wow!

Joe T.

Do you remember when you heard he was traded for Doug Flynn, Pat Zachry and Steve Henderson? One of the darkest days of my youth. I still cringe when hearing the name "M. Donald Grant."

[bbcard1]

Not saying I don't get Koufax…I do, but another pitcher who played at the same time and hasn't gotten any love is Juan Marichal. ERA and srikeouts are comparable but she won 80+ more games and won 100 games more than he lost.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Not saying I don't get Koufax…I do, but another pitcher who played at the same time and hasn't gotten any love is Juan Marichal. ERA and srikeouts are comparable but she won 80+ more games and won 100 games more than he lost.

The years they pitched together, Koufax led the NL in wins 2 times, tied with Marichal once, Marichal never led the league by himself. Koufax led in era 5 times, Marichal 0. Koufax led in strike outs 4 times, Marichal 0. Koufax led in FIP 6 times, Marichal 0. Koufax led in WHIP 4 times, Marichal 1. Koufax led in Ks/9 6 times, Marichal 0.

You say strike outs and era are comparable? Marichal's high for Ks was 248. Koufax had seasons of 382, 317, and 306. Ks/9 Koufax 9.3 Marichal 5.9. Marichal's best era was 2.13. Koufax's last 4 seasons were 1.88, 1.74, 2.04 and 1.73. How are those comparable? There is good reason why Koufax won 3 Cy Youngs, 1 MVP, 2 MVP runner-ups and 2 World Series MVPs during those years and Marichal didn't get a single Cy Young vote.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Not saying I don't get Koufax…I do, but another pitcher who played at the same time and hasn't gotten any love is Juan Marichal. ERA and srikeouts are comparable but she won 80+ more games and won 100 games more than he lost.

Did Juan go the same route that Bruce Jenner went ???

Is she know known as Juanita ?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Do you remember when you heard he was traded for Doug Flynn, Pat Zachry and Steve Henderson? One of the darkest days of my youth. I still cringe when hearing the name "M. Donald Grant."

Absolutely Jeff.....the "Midnight Massacre"! What a horrible day that was for all faithful Met fans.

[Joshchisox08]

Just to be different than others that were mentioned so much:

"The Big Hurt" Frank Thomas
"The Big Unit" Randy Johnson
"Pudge" Carlton Fisk
Joe Torre

[peterb69]

Mays, Aaron, Rose, Bonds

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Bench is not top 4 living, they had him there for the Reds fans, but I don't know why they didn't choose Frank Robinson.

Mays, Aaron, Koufax(I'm biased), Pedro

Bench revolutionized the catcher's roll and made it an art form.

Aaron, Bench, Koufax, Mays - and Schmidt would have been my fifth.
.
.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Bench revolutionized the catcher's roll and made it an art form.

.

But that doesn't necessarily make him better. Without Richard Pryor there is no Eddie Murphy, but that doesn't make Pryor unimpeccably better. If this were a discussion of who contributed more to the game then this argument could be valid. With the word greatest we aren't left with subjective ambiguity like we are with the Hall of Fame or MVP Award.

[Golfcollector]

Nolan ryan
6 no hitters
all time strikeouts leader...will Never have this record beat.

To me that soldifies him on this list...too bad he played for generally bad teams

[btcarfagno]

Mays
Aaron
F Robinson
Pedro Martinez

Tom C

[btcarfagno]

Pedro > Sandy

To me it's not close.

Tom C