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#1
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No one is suggesting that you call a native american "chief". No one is suggesting that you should call a Latino "Pancho" (unless that's his name).
We're talking about what you call a sports team. No one would have a problem if you named your new minor league baseball team the Albuquerque Amigos. The Panchos might be more controversial, but mainly because it's nonsensical. I'm not going to argue that the Chiefs and the Braves should absolutely be able to keep their names (though I think they should), but it's not hard to see that Chief and Brave are flattering names, and "Redskin" is NOT. |
#2
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So then the Washington Redskins are named the Redskins because they dislike Native Americans? Last edited by packs; 10-02-2014 at 02:11 PM. |
#3
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This really isn't that complex. It's defined in the dictionary as a "slur". None of these other words are slurs by their very definition. People are afraid of change and they don't like being told that things they like suck. I understand the resistance, but it won't matter in the end. The name won't last for a lot longer. |
#4
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If Dietz thought it was a slur, why didn't he speak up at the time? I'd be willing to bet if he were alive today, he would have no problem whatsoever with the name. |
#5
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Actually, its pretty common for 80 year old thought processes to adjust over time. Thank goodness. |
#6
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In today's times, the term "Whitey" is considered a slur as well. So, do we insist Whitey Ford use his real name and stop signing his autograph "Whitey" Ford?
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#7
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Cool social experiment. Let us know how it goes! |
#8
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But then again, "Whitey" wasn't subjected to mass ethnic cleansing and forced migration by his government. 4,000 Cherokee were "cleansed" in the Trail of Tears alone because they had red skin. Most of the rest were dumped in a wasteland. But that "Whitey" argument is a good one and shows considerable empathy and historical appreciation.
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#9
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I think it can be viewed as matter of manners. If someone birth named Charles asks to be called Charlie and not Chuckie or Chaz because he's never liked those last two nicknames names, you call him Charlie. If you continue to call him Chuckie or Chaz, fine, but admit you're doing it to be an ass. Saying you're "out of respect" calling people a name they say they find offensive is, of course, BS. And with Charlie, it's not even a matter or whether or not Chuckie or Chaz are offensives or bad names. Charlie may be the first to say there's nothing wrong with those names in general, just as Bob or Tim are perfectly sound names. But if you don't want him to punch you in the nose, quit calling him Chuckie.
That a Jewish person (Snyder) is so adamant and stubborn against changing an offending name amazes me. An elderly couple I know said when they were kids in Baltimore they weren't allowed to use the local public swimming pool because they were Jewish. And think of uproar if the team was named the "Washington Jewish Bankers" with people defending the name as a symbol of respect because "everyone agrees that being good with money is a good thing." P.s. I was waiting for someone to bring up the Minnesota Vikings, a common example brought up in this debates and because I'm a descent of Vikings. But no one did. If you're wondering, the nickname doesn't offend me or any Scandinavian-Americans I know of. But it's a different situation, only in part because it's the Scandinavians in Minnesota who picked the name. Self determination, like Charlie to be called Charlie and not Chuckie. Though I can tell you that the mascot and emblem is historically incorrect. For example, Vikings didn't wear horns on their helmets. That's just a modern romantic myth. Last edited by drcy; 10-03-2014 at 03:11 AM. |
#10
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It's also a myth that the Vikings can hang with my Packers!
Sorry, saw an opening.
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
#11
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If they change it they should go with Braves. Especially since that was the team name when they were in Boston and played in Braves field.
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#12
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I'm was raised in Wisconsin, so am a Packers, not a Vikings, fan.
Last edited by drcy; 10-03-2014 at 11:02 AM. |
#13
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Wrong wrong wrong. This is from a Washington post article The proof is in a July 6, 1933, edition of the Hartford Courant, which Witten unearthed after the sports Web site MMQB tipped him off about it. The edition includes a short Associated Press dispatch quoting Marshall saying: “The fact that we have in our head coach, Lone Star Dietz, an Indian, together with several Indian players, has not, as may be suspected, inspired me to select the name Redskins.” Instead, Marshall explains, he gave up “Braves” to avoid confusion with a Boston professional baseball team of the same name. He apparently picked the Redskins name so he could keep the existing Native American logo.
__________________
"I am an outcast, and I haven't a good name. I'm the loser, just like all gamblers are. I lived to make great plays. What did I gain? Nothing. Everything was lost because I raised hell after hours. I was a wise guy, a know-it-all, I guess." -Hal Chase |
#14
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![]() Who is "wrong wrong wrong" now? |
#15
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Coach Lone Star Dietz could have named the team himself and it wouldn't change any of the modern facts about this issue.
There are many words that were used in the past that were acceptable then that aren't now. You don't need to be very creative to think of them. Perhaps the fact that this one has stayed around for so long is what makes this confusing to some. I think that maybe it says more about how disenfranchised Native Americans are than anything else. |
#16
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I just think you are too hardline on your definitions. Redskin is a slur in context. So is Indian. So is Chief.
Redskins today is a slur. Indian today is a slur. But at the time I don't think you can argue any other way than it was a misguided sense of tribute. Last edited by packs; 10-02-2014 at 03:33 PM. |
#17
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Redskins is a slur OUT of context. It is a slur no matter what, because that's the definition of the word. Indian and chief and brave can be slurs IN context. But that is true of almost any noun. |
#18
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I think the name is a problem. But I think the same problem exists for Braves, Chiefs, and Indians. We are in agreement over Redskins but not the others.
While you think Braves, Chiefs, and Indians are harmless or titles of respect, I don't think you can make that decision for Native Americans. If they are offended by the titles, then their feelings about them should be just as important as those for Redskins. Last edited by packs; 10-02-2014 at 03:32 PM. |
#19
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Redskins on the other hand is indefensible from my point of view. It's a slur any way you look at it. And you don't even need to ask a Native American...its right there in the dictionary. |
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