T206 Blue Old Mill - Page 5

thehoodedcoder · #**201** 10-10-2013, 05:35 PM

PSA would have never slabbed it. That much I CAN tell you. It has been an epic battle to cross my Nodgrass.

There is no way they are going to slab that as a "Blue back" on the label\

Kevin

steve B · #**202** 10-11-2013, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, but all 4 borders are wider on the OM. If it is authentic, doesn't that mean it was probably hand cut from a sheet? Otherwise, how does one explain the obviously oversize white borders?

Also, the borders are much whiter on the OM. Maybe something bleached the the card (intentionally or not) and it also turned the ink blue.

There's a lot of size differences with most old cards. So having wider borders isn't odd.

The lightness could be lightness or the scanner, no way to tell without having a couple cards in hand. The T206s I have aren't consistently white or off-white.

I suppose it could have been changed by some chemical. Most black inks of the era are carbon -Either carbon black or lampblack- in a hardener like shellac or linseed oil (yeah, plus a bunch of other stuff that the companies kept as trade secrets) Carbon pigments don't change color all that readily.

Steve B

steve B · #**203** 10-11-2013, 09:10 AM

Found this while looking for info about inks. From 1904, includes pretty much everything you never wanted to know about various inks and how they are/were made.

http://www.archive.org/stream/inksth...crich_djvu.txt

Not in the best format for reading, but interesting anyway.

Some of what I've found makes me wonder if some of the darker black OM backs are actually blue, which can be made nearly black. And one of the common dark blues can be lightened.

But the same argument that goes against the blue OM works there as well, if the ink of the darker ones is really a blue-black, we should see a lot more blue ones. Just as we should eventually find a few more blue ones if it's an actual error in the color used.

As a funny technical note, the computer monitor I have is a flat panel one. I nearly bought an OM on Ebay because it looked BLUE! Then I sat up to type and as the angle I viewed it at changed it got darker, until it was black. Now I make sure I'm viewing at a good angle when I'm looking at cards.......

Steve B

thehoodedcoder · #**204** 10-13-2013, 10:35 AM

hi,

who is the current owner of the card? does anyone know this?

kevin

4815162342 · #**205** 10-13-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Most likely he is referring to SGC getting a pass on Net54baseball and PSA not getting passes (on issues such as this). This board, to me, is always a little unfair to PSA. They deserve some of the criticisms, no doubt, but they seem to get blown out of proportion. Whereas SGC does not get taken to task the same way. Hope that helps explain it.

Thank you Leon!

ullmandds · #**206** 10-13-2013, 05:54 PM

SGC doesn't get taken to task like PSA does because SGC doesn't make nearly as many questionable moves as PSA does.

Leon · #**207** 10-13-2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

SGC doesn't get taken to task like PSA does because SGC doesn't make nearly as many questionable moves as PSA does.

SGC is my grader of choice both personally and professionally. I know most of the folks at the company and trust them very much. All of that said, I was just calling it like I see it...just one

opinion.

I should add that I have used BVG on quite a few occasions, for various reasons. I think all 3 of the top companies do a good job.

CMIZ5290 · #**208** 10-13-2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

PSA would have never slabbed it. That much I CAN tell you. It has been an epic battle to cross my Nodgrass.

There is no way they are going to slab that as a "Blue back" on the label\

Kevin

Kevin- How can you be this sure? I would not want to bet big bucks on it....

CMIZ5290 · #**209** 10-13-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

SGC doesn't get taken to task like PSA does because SGC doesn't make nearly as many questionable moves as PSA does.

Pete- I feel you, but what about resale value? PSA blows SGC out of the water, not even close, especially T206s... When are SGC advocates going to admit this? Even if you are simply a collector, sooner or later you are going to have to realize a price when you sell. Does this not matter?

ullmandds · #**210** 10-13-2013, 06:51 PM

Kevin...I agree in the past many of PSA's hammer prices were higher...due to PSA's...in my opinion...testosterone laden registry. If these "collectors" chose to pay inflated prices for cards with inflated grades...just to improve their position on a registry fabricated by a corrupt company...this is just plain stupid behavior...in my opinion.

bnorth · #**211** 10-13-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Pete- I feel you, but what about resale value? PSA blows SGC out of the water, not even close, especially T206s... When are SGC advocates going to admit this? Even if you are simply a collector, sooner or later you are going to have to realize a price when you sell. Does this not matter?

My opinion on resale value is so many collectors have so much $ into PSA cards. That no one stops buying there junk because it would highly devalue there own PSA graded cards if they did.

I understand everyone makes mistakes. SGC just seems to make by far the least of the big 3 and hopefully someday resale prices will reflect that.

ullmandds · #**212** 10-13-2013, 07:06 PM

I kind of agree with Ben...it's like what is being said over with the Mastro debacle...once a card sells for a certain amount...despite the fact it may have been shilled...or phantom bid up to that amount...when future sales occur of a similar card...I think those who have previously purchased the card are bidding it up to justify what they paid...it's kind of a large...firm BUBBLE!!!!!

CMIZ5290 · #**213** 10-13-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

My opinion on resale value is so many collectors have so much $ into PSA cards. That no one stops buying there junk because it would highly devalue there own PSA graded cards if they did.

I understand everyone makes mistakes. SGC just seems to make by far the least of the big 3 and hopefully someday resale prices will reflect that.

wow.....just when you think you heard it all....

ullmandds · #**214** 10-13-2013, 07:18 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61uWowYxzQ8

thehoodedcoder · #**215** 10-13-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Kevin- How can you be this sure? I would not want to bet big bucks on it....

they have very firmly stated that they do not recognize anything that is not in the standard catalouge. period. this is not in there. you can simply call, ask that exact question and they will give you that exact answer. i would bet any amount that you chose to bet.

even cards that are in there, its a big battle to get them recognized.

kevin

thehoodedcoder · #**216** 10-13-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Kevin...I agree in the past many of PSA's hammer prices were higher...due to PSA's...in my opinion...testosterone laden registry. If these "collectors" chose to pay inflated prices for cards with inflated grades...just to improve their position on a registry fabricated by a corrupt company...this is just plain stupid behavior...in my opinion.

if a great majority of people buy at a given price, it sets a new precedence for the item. some may think the item is over priced. others may recognize that there is equal supply and demand at the new given, higher price.

kevin

thehoodedcoder · #**217** 10-13-2013, 07:26 PM

Quote:

My opinion on resale value is so many collectors have so much $ into PSA cards. That no one stops buying there junk because it would highly devalue there own PSA graded cards if they did.

that is just the most ridiculous thing i have heard in a while. you did not think about that before you typed it.

kevin

bnorth · #**218** 10-13-2013, 07:32 PM

Yes I did, it is actually a very common opinion among collectors. Even ones that deal mainly in graded cards.

Please tell my why you think they sell for more, I am very interested in your opinion.

thehoodedcoder · #**219** 10-13-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes I did, it is actually a very common opinion among collectors. Even ones that deal mainly in graded cards.

Please tell my why you think they sell for more, I am very interested in your opinion.

I think that your explanation of a person believes they need to keep spending their money on something they don't believe in, then in fact DOES do just that after their revelation, to maintain the value of their cards or even believes that themselves have a big impact on that is utterly ridiculous.

Based purely on number of collectors, I might assume that there is at least one person out there that believes that. To think that there are large number of them is even more ridiculous.

If many people believe that, its not ridiculous. Its sad. It speaks to how common sense has been totally flushed out in this country.

My opinion about why they sell for more is totally irrelavant to that.

Kevin

wonkaticket · #**220** 10-14-2013, 12:30 AM

Quality items sell and always will sell for quality prices no matter what holder they are in PSA or SGC.

Now your avg. soft graded run of the mill cards may in fact sell for a bit more in PSA due to the much more active registry base but that's about the sum of it for me.

Nobody is leaving serious money on the table by using one or the other IMO, choose who you would like to use for grading and go for it.

ctownboy · #**221** 10-14-2013, 06:14 AM

If shill bidding is as rampant at auction houses (or eBay) as some have said in various threads on this board and if those auction houses mostly submit cards to PSA (or people who submit large quantities of cards to PSA) get higher grades for cards than most other people would get, as has also been stated in various threads on this board then shouldn't it follow that PSA cards attain higher prices at auction than SGC graded cards?

David

ullmandds · #**222** 10-14-2013, 07:01 AM

Some people like living in denial...I mean:

-overinflated grades
-preferential grading
-shill bidding
-phantom bidding
-psa registry

Sure you can say all u want that as long as people are willing to pay whatever price...these ridiculous prices are warranted...and that the shill bidding really doesn't matter because if I was willing to pay 1K...who cares if a card was shill bid up to 950...even though it may only be worth $500.

All of these deceptive practices that overinflate card grades...that overinflate sales prices...cannot and will not proceed forever.

There are a lot of wealthy "collectors" out there who are fueling this situation...and this is not likely to change anytime soon...BUT...it has been shown that when 2 people want a card...prices can go crazy...and as soon as 1 of those buyers obtains the card...the next sales prices tends to be a bit lower.

If PSA goes down...or is forced to admit that they have in fact participated in preferential grading...in overinflating grades...when other major auction houses ARE implicated in deceptive practices and are taken to task...the shit will hit the fan and will have an impact on the hobby!

ullmandds · #**223** 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM

I apogize for the derailure of this thread!

TO get back on track...I have always been suspicious of this card...and would never pay big bucks for it...for there to be only 1 example of any T206...let alone a back variation is highly...highly unlikely!

The rarest of t206 backs...the brown om's/lenox, bl 460's...have dozens of examples...some of which were scraps. If dozens of scraps survive...how is there 1 smurf backed om?

wolf441 · #**224** 10-14-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Some people like living in denial...I mean:

-overinflated grades
-preferential grading
-shill bidding
-phantom bidding
-psa registry

Sure you can say all u want that as long as people are willing to pay whatever price...these ridiculous prices are warranted...and that the shill bidding really doesn't matter because if I was willing to pay 1K...who cares if a card was shill bid up to 950...even though it may only be worth $500.

All of these deceptive practices that overinflate card grades...that overinflate sales prices...cannot and will not proceed forever.

There are a lot of wealthy "collectors" out there who are fueling this situation...and this is not likely to change anytime soon...BUT...it has been shown that when 2 people want a card...prices can go crazy...and as soon as 1 of those buyers obtains the card...the next sales prices tends to be a bit lower.

If PSA goes down...or is forced to admit that they have in fact participated in preferential grading...in overinflating grades...when other major auction houses ARE implicated in deceptive practices and are taken to task...the shit will hit the fan and will have an impact on the hobby!

I agree 100% Pete,

To me, at almost feels like the 2007-early 2008 run up to the financial collapse. I've seen numerous threads about the ridiculous prices being paid for certain cards (T206 backs for example). While there are obviously many collectors who have the disposable income to spend the $$, at what point do they look at the landscape and start feeling that the whole system is dirty? At that point, folks may decide that it's time to start selling before the floor drops out. If people decide that TPG services aren't a guarantee of anything, you may see the supply/demand ratio flip and prices start to drop.

I saw it firsthand when lenders were giving out ARMs and interest only mortgages for $400k+ to families that we making about $45k/per year. These companies would then bundle the mortgages up, securitize them and sell them off as CMOs, credit default swaps, etc... All it really took to pull the card house down was a few people saying "wait a minute, this doesn't make sense, what's backing up these investments?". The moment that there wasn't complete believe in the system, everything fell apart.

thehoodedcoder · #**225** 11-27-2013, 03:11 PM

who ever bought it for 14k from heritage auction has it for sale for 30k there. i wonder if they ever got the card in their hand?

did anyone on the board buy it?

kevin

atx840 · #**226** 11-27-2013, 03:56 PM

I can't talk about it just yet.

wonkaticket · #**227** 11-27-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

I can't talk about it just yet.

Cardboard Junkie · #**228** 11-27-2013, 04:31 PM

Initiatives?

thehoodedcoder · #**229** 11-27-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

I can't talk about it just yet.

you can eat a dick too.

kevin quinn

wonkaticket · #**230** 11-27-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

you can eat a dick too.

kevin quinn

Thank you Kevin what a wonderful suggestion for Chris and others for this Holiday season. Good call a wonderful pudding can make all the difference at ones Holiday table.

Between your wonderful culinary suggestions and your secret initiatives I’m beginning to wonder is there anything Kevin can’t do.

thehoodedcoder · #**231** 11-27-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Thank you Kevin what a wonderful suggestion for Chris and others for this Holiday season. Good call a wonderful pudding can make all the difference at ones Holiday table.

Between your wonderful culinary suggestions and your secret initiatives I’m beginning to wonder is there anything Kevin can’t do.

it wasn't festive enough for you on this jewish holiday?

ok. here is one with a bow on it for you. just for you wonka.

kevin quinn

wonkaticket · #**232** 11-27-2013, 05:15 PM

Oh it wasn’t a Holiday recommendation for food it was a homoerotic attempt at simple fellatio humor. I didn’t follow it I’m sorry. I also didn’t expect you to work blue so quickly. However it is sort of understandable I’m sure you’ll agree. You see I’m just a simple collector and not as astute as you with top secret incentives.

Also I’m not Jewish but if I was I would hope that’s an all-beef Kosher dog above…

atx840 · #**233** 11-27-2013, 05:20 PM

I didn't get a bow

wonkaticket · #**234** 11-27-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

I didn't get a bow

You’ll have to forgive Kevin Chris he’s got a lot of top secret heavy stuff on his mind. I’m sure it was a simple oversight on his part not offer you a bow with his “Dick” I wouldn’t take it personally.

Sean · #**235** 11-27-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

You’ll have to forgive Kevin Chris he’s got a lot of top secret heavy stuff on his mind. I’m sure it was a simple oversight on his part not offer you a bow with his “Dick” I wouldn’t take it personally.

I wouldn't take it at all.

wonkaticket · #**236** 11-27-2013, 05:29 PM

Sean don’t be so quick to say that about Kevin’s offer sometimes it’s the “littlest” gifts that mean the most.

Sean · #**237** 11-27-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

sean don’t be so quick to say that about kevin’s offer sometimes it’s the “littlest” gifts that mean the most.

lol

thehoodedcoder · #**238** 11-27-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

I didn't get a bow

well. i have seen your picture. i figured you would love it with or without the bow. sorry about that. next time i will make sure it looks extra tastey for you.

kevin

vintagetoppsguy · #**239** 11-27-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Sean don’t be so quick to say that about Kevin’s offer sometimes it’s the “littlest” gifts that mean the most.

LOL, you guys are too funny

npa589 · #**240** 11-27-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

well. i have seen your picture. i figured you would love it with or without the bow. sorry about that. next time i will make sure it looks extra tastey for you.

kevin

Chris: I think you have a fan!

Runscott · #**241** 11-27-2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL, you guys are too funny

Funny in a cylindrical sort of way

wonkaticket · #**242** 11-27-2013, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npa589

Chris: I think you have a fan!

Nate I saw that too! But it will never work out Chris is old fashioned he could never get involved with somebody who has sooooo many secrets.

Gradedcardman · #**243** 11-27-2013, 05:58 PM

True John, Chris is an open book !

thehoodedcoder · #**244** 11-27-2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npa589

Chris: I think you have a fan!

My girlfriend doesn't let me bang metro sexuals and emos

Kevin quinn

CMIZ5290 · #**245** 11-27-2013, 06:01 PM

Kevin- Not trying to jump in this thing half cocked, but the Jewish comments to me are somewhat offensive. I'll admit, I have some people on this board that I dont necessarily get along with, but that's a little out of line.....

thehoodedcoder · #**246** 11-27-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Kevin- Not trying to jump in this thing half cocked, but the Jewish comments to me are somewhat offensive. I'll admit, I have some people on this board that I dont necessarily get along with, but that's a little out of line.....

it wasn't a comment about jewish people. lol.

did you read the whole thread?

kevin

CMIZ5290 · #**247** 11-27-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

it wasn't a comment about jewish people. lol.

did you read the whole thread?

kevin

No, I did not. I am trying my best to refrain from these type of threads, but I have been guilty in the past as many others have...I will go back and look at all comments...

thehoodedcoder · #**248** 11-27-2013, 06:08 PM

for the record, my girlfriend is jewish.

kevin

atx840 · #**249** 11-27-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

for the record, my girlfriend is jewish.

kevin

Does she get the bow?

thehoodedcoder · #**250** 11-27-2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

Does she get the bow?

you must be done eating it, since you are talking again.

that was fast.

yes. the girlfriend always gets the bow.

she doesn't need to ask or deserve it to get it, but thanks for asking.

kevin

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