Dallas Cowboys 'Loser' list

[Runscott]

Jeff is right - this is not a 'good' team. Beginning with this week's absolute shit performance against Cleveland, I'll update this thread with players contributing to this year's stink season:

1. Dez Bryant - stepping out of bounds, unmolested, 1/2 yard short of a first down when his team is down 10-0.
2. Doug Free - provides almost zero protection for Tony Romo on the right side
3. Jerry Jones (obviously) - for sticking with Garrett

[deebro041]

Scott, Dez Bryant just caught ONE. He must have read this posting.
I agree with you though, it has been a frustrating up and mostly down season!!

[39special]

I'm an Eagles fan.We are having a HORRIBLE season.

[HRBAKER]

Figuring Dez thought he was too close to curfew so he stepped out.

[EvilKing00]

Giants fan here

[tiger8mush]

i'd move Jerrah to #1 on your list, Scott. Until he hires a GM I don't see the team having the success it had 20 years ago.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

i'd move Jerrah to #1 on your list, Scott. Until he hires a GM I don't see the team having the success it had 20 years ago.

There's no order - just adding Cowboys as they underperform. I'm sure Romo will make it soon enough, but I have to admit I have been impressed with his determination the last two games. Today I noticed again that Romo and his offense do not seem to be on the same page. He seems frustrated, yelling at players - one of the linemen threw his hands up in the air at one point, as if exasperated with Romo. And, as happened frequently last year, he had to call a time-out because the offense wasn't ready, and also got a delay of game.

But I'll save Romo for next week.

[Runscott]

Perhaps I've been too tough on them - out of their five losses, four were to division leaders (Ravens, Falcons, Bears, Giants) and one was to a team that after tonight, could be in second by 1/2 game (Seahawks).

...but alas, it's Monday and I still have no love for JJ

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

There's no order - just adding Cowboys as they underperform. I'm sure Romo will make it soon enough, but I have to admit I have been impressed with his determination the last two games. Today I noticed again that Romo and his offense do not seem to be on the same page. He seems frustrated, yelling at players - one of the linemen threw his hands up in the air at one point, as if exasperated with Romo. And, as happened frequently last year, he had to call a time-out because the offense wasn't ready, and also got a delay of game.

But I'll save Romo for next week.

The buck somewhat stops at Romo. Just not sure he has what it takes.

[jefferyepayne]

Just watched an episode about Jimmy Johnson on ESPN's "A Football Life" and it reminded me of how much Jerry Jones screwed up by not being able to get along with Jimmy. His ego has not gotten any smaller and he continues to insist he knows something about football.

jeff

[deebro041]

Good point Jeff.
Scott you know they will drag us in to the end of the season and miss the playoffs by one game leaving us once again banging our heads against the wall!

[Runscott]

Yeah, I was almost hoping the Browns would end it for us.

My thoughts about Jones:

1. He couldn't stand Jimmy Johnson getting credit for the team's success
2. He realized that his fans were sick of his attitude, and so hired Parcells and gave him 'complete' control. His ego was still too big, so that didn't work
3. Now he considers Garrett 'his boy', and wants to see him succeed so that he can take credit for the team's success
4. Romo is an enigma. Jones never puts up with failure this long. Another case of Jones needing to prove he made a good choice?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Just watched an episode about Jimmy Johnson on ESPN's "A Football Life" and it reminded me of how much Jerry Jones screwed up by not being able to get along with Jimmy. His ego has not gotten any smaller and he continues to insist he knows something about football.

jeff

Jimmy stood up to Jerry and wouldn't let Jerry run the team. Each head coach after Jimmy has been a bit of a puppet. It's all about Jerry. Jerry even said, the other night on the news, that if he were head coach he would fire himself . I thought that was pretty funny.

[alanu]

Sad, whiny Cowboy fans make me happy.

[tiger8mush]

I think you could stick Brady or Rodgers or Brees on this team and you wouldn't see much difference. The OL can't pass block, they can't no-huddle, they false start and hold. The offense as a whole can't no-huddle - they aren't smart enough cuz they haven't been taught. They don't have the discipline. They have individual talent but don't play as a team. Dez Bryant spends too much time arguing with the refs when he should be getting back to the huddle. WRs run the wrong read-routes. This has been going on for years - #11 Roy Williams couldn't run a timing route w/Romo. The OL will double team a guy, leaving a gap for a blitzing LBer to run right up the middle. Don't get me started on clock management. And play calling. ACK!

not gonna be pretty on turkey day vs the deadskins!

[D. Bergin]

Giant fan here. Looking from this side of the fence, I've never seen Romo as the problem with the Cowboys.

He's the best QB the Cowboys have had since Aikman, by a country mile.

People talk like dominant QB's grow on trees, and the Cowboys can just go out and find somebody better.

If Jerry Jones spent less time and money going after players who have a lot of raw talent, but have to be baby-sat on a regular basis to the detriment of the rest of the team, the Cowboys might be able to make a run at something.

Better than Randall Cunningham, Drew Bledsoe, and Vinny Testaverde? Last time I checked all of those players had won a playoff game in their career. Kitna and Romo have the same amount of playoff wins so I'll call that a push. He folds like a bad lawn chair under playoff pressure.

I'll give you, he's better than Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, Stephen McGee, Ryan Leaf (oh boy!), Clint Stoerner, Drew Henson, and Chad Hutchinson.

Headcases are the problem for the Cowboys. In the locker room, front office, and on the sidelines. Egos, nothing more than that.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Better than Randall Cunningham, Drew Bledsoe, and Vinny Testaverde? Last time I checked all of those players had won a playoff game in their career. Kitna and Romo have the same amount of playoff wins so I'll call that a push. He folds like a bad lawn chair under playoff pressure.

I'll give you, he's better than Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, Stephen McGee, Ryan Leaf (oh boy!), Clint Stoerner, Drew Henson, and Chad Hutchinson.

Headcases are the problem for the Cowboys. In the locker room, front office, and on the sidelines. Egos, nothing more than that.

At the point in their careers those guys were on the Cowboys? That's pretty silly to be honest.

Jon Kitna? C'mon!

Playoff wins or not, Romo is easily the best QB they have had since 1999.

For a guy who was an undrafted Free Agent out of college, he sure takes a lot of flack. He may actually be one of the biggest over-achievers in Cowboys history.

His biggest flaw is probably the aw shucks, just happy to be here because I'm an undrafted free agent who's the starting QB for the Dallas Cowboys.

He spent a lot of years being bullied by the malcontents on his team instead of leading them.

Guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, The Manning brothers.........will get the ball to the guy who gets open for him first. Romo has had a bad habit of forcing the ball to his friends..........or the guy who's whining the most to have the ball thrown to them.

Romo has tons of 4th quarter comebacks, but it seems like he takes a lot of flack because of the amount of 4th quarter leads the Cowboys have lost themselves...............often the product of a defensive collapse.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Playoff wins or not, Romo is easily the best QB they have had since 1999.

There is no doubt you are correct. The Quincy Carter years were the most frustrating of all.

The argument against Romo is that he folds when you need a big game out of him - getting two in a row is impossible. The quarterback leads the team, and when the team is as inconsistent as Dallas (great game one week, followed by horrible the next, repeat the previous ad infinitum...), year after year during the same QB's tenure, you've got to take a closer look. I would be curious to hear Romo's explanation.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by alanu

Sad, whiny Cowboy fans make me happy.

You are mean.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Runscott

There is no doubt you are correct. The Quincy Carter years were the most frustrating of all.

The argument against Romo is that he folds when you need a big game out of him - getting two in a row is impossible. The quarterback leads the team, and when the team is as inconsistent as Dallas (great game one week, followed by horrible the next, repeat the previous ad infinitum...), year after year during the same QB's tenure, you've got to take a closer look. I would be curious to hear Romo's explanation.

I think it's the entire team atmosphere, and it starts with Jerry Jones at the top.

Obviously Romo is a part of that, but unless the Cowboys tank a season a franchise QB is coming out of college, there's not a lot of "better" options for them.

Franchise QB's rarely become available in Free Agency, Manning only recently because of his neck injury.

He reminds me a lot of Danny White. A very good QB (statistically nearly as good as Roger Staubach during the regular season), who wilted in several playoff situations...........and Cowboys fans hated him for not being Roger.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Jon Kitna? C'mon!

Playoff wins or not, Romo is easily the best QB they have had since 1999.

For a guy who was an undrafted Free Agent out of college, he sure takes a lot of flack. He may actually be one of the biggest over-achievers in Cowboys history.

Over-achiever? Romo is the embodiment of NFL mediocrity. He takes flack because he deserves it. All of this "Romo is an elite quarterback" talk is a joke. He will never win a playoff game.... ever! If he does I will eat a Tony Romo Fathead, and post a pic of my meal on net54.

BTW Kitna was also an undrafted free agent from Central Washington University (Div 2), even played in Europe for a while. Was he also "the biggest over-achiever in Cowboys history"? Sincerely, Hopeless Jon Kitna Apologist and CWU Alum.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Over-achiever? Romo is the embodiment of NFL mediocrity. He takes flack because he deserves it. All of this "Romo is an elite quarterback" talk is a joke. He will never win a playoff game.... ever! If he does I will eat a Tony Romo Fathead, and post a pic of my meal on net54.

BTW Kitna was also an undrafted free agent from Central Washington University (Div 2), even played in Europe for a while. Was he also "the biggest over-achiever in Cowboys history"? Sincerely, Hopeless Jon Kitna Apologist and CWU Alum.

How many games did Jon Kitna actually play for the Cowboys?

I'm a Giants fan, I hate the Cowboys. I'm also aware Romo has played some fantastic statistical games against the Giants and lost them, because other aspects of his team let them down.

I don't have a horse in this race, so I'm not really interested in talking smack. If you want to argue logically I'm happy to hear out your reasons.

If your only argument is playoff wins and comparing Romo to old men who played a season or two off the bench, I guess I'll just give this up.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think it's the entire team atmosphere, and it starts with Jerry Jones at the top.

...

He reminds me a lot of Danny White. A very good QB (statistically nearly as good as Roger Staubach during the regular season), who wilted in several playoff situations...........and Cowboys fans hated him for not being Roger.

Funny you should mention White - no, I never liked him much, but if the team had performed better behind him it would have been okay. I didn't hate him the way I hated Craig Morton. And I actually kind of like Romo - in my view he has skills that neither Morton or White had. Perhaps Romo has gotten 'good enough' now, and it's the mediocrity of his O-Line and Garrett's play-calling that makes him look like he's choking. At this rate, I doubt we'll find out.

[alanu]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are mean.

only when it comes to the Yankees and Cowboys, of course, my team was the Oilers and I didn't convert when they became the Titans so I'm kind of without a team

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

How many games did Jon Kitna actually play for the Cowboys?

I'm a Giants fan, I hate the Cowboys. I'm also aware Romo has played some fantastic statistical games against the Giants and lost them, because other aspects of his team let them down.

I don't have a horse in this race, so I'm not really interested in talking smack. If you want to argue logically I'm happy to hear out your reasons.

If your only argument is playoff wins and comparing Romo to old men who played a season or two off the bench, I guess I'll just give this up.

Kitna played nine games for the Cowboys, 4 W's 5 L's.

I'm a Seahawks fan and also applaud the inevitable collapse of "them Cowboys"

Yes, that is my only argument because it is the measure of a Cowboys quarterback, playoff wins and Super Bowl Rings. Also the measure of many quarterbacks with the possible exception of Dan Fouts & Dan Marino (or Dan Pastorini ). Seriously, Could Care Less

[howard38]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Over-achiever? Romo is the embodiment of NFL mediocrity. He takes flack because he deserves it. All of this "Romo is an elite quarterback" talk is a joke. He will never win a playoff game.... ever! If he does I will eat a Tony Romo Fathead, and post a pic of my meal on net54.

BTW Kitna was also an undrafted free agent from Central Washington University (Div 2), even played in Europe for a while. Was he also "the biggest over-achiever in Cowboys history"? Sincerely, Hopeless Jon Kitna Apologist and CWU Alum.

Romo already has won a playoff game.

[alanu]

All kidding aside, I think the Cowboys main problem is coaching. If they had one of the Harbaugh's they'd be one of the better teams in the league. Romo isn't elite, but he's just as good or better than Flacco, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Schaub, Big Ben, etc

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by alanu

All kidding aside, I think the Cowboys main problem is coaching. If they had one of the Harbaugh's they'd be one of the better teams in the league. Romo isn't elite, but he's just as good or better than Flacco, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Schaub, Big Ben, etc

No one has brought this up, but for several years now the Cowboys have had very high expectations prior to season start. They were even predicted by many to be the hosts in the JJ Monstrosity's first Super Bowl, yet they failed to even make the playoffs.

Given that many of the experts continue to have such inflated views of Cowboy potential each year, the personnel on the team MUST have some untapped potential. I personally agree with Alan that it's coaching - Garrett makes such blatant mistakes that no one could argue with his being a culprit. How about Ryan? Has he had enough time and been given enough talented players to have gotten the job done by now? How about JJ? Is he such a demoralizing influence on the team that no one can perform under him?

I tend to agree with Alan that if you bring a good coaching staff in, you turn this team around fairly fast.

Giants fans: enjoy it while you can. Given that the 5 Cowboys losses this year came to 4 division leaders plus the Seahawks, and the rest of the stretch is pretty lame, despite all the problems, the Cowboys might actually make it to the playoffs this year as division champs.

[HRBAKER]

Alan and Scott,
You two think that the talent on this team is Super Bowl caliber and all that's missing is the right coach?

[steve B]

I've become more and more convinced that Football is a sport that really requires a team effort. And one that goes all the way to the top.

Hate the Pats if you want, many do. But they have an organization that's consistent from the top down. And one in which the player might not matter a whole lot.
When you're calling plays based on the individuals skills rather than forcing them to match the play more plays become high percentage.
Think about it, they went 11-5 with a backup who's been very average on another team. No playoffs that year, only because someone else had a better year.

I don't think Romo is the problem.

I think the problem starts with JJ and runs down from there.
The coach isn't confident in support from the owner.
So he pushes for results.
But instead of going with the guys who can get it done he goes with the guys who are paid the most. Probably because of demands from the owner.

Can you imagine a Cowboys coach going for it on 4th down on their own side of the field late in a game against Peyton Manning?
Or deliberately allowing a go ahead touchdown to preserve some clock time?
Now can you imagine a Cowboys coach doing that and keeping his job?
Or actually getting support from the owner for those decisions?
Nope, I don't see it. Maybe not on any other team either, although it's easier to imagine on successful teams. (Giants maybe?)

Let a coach get Romo into plays designed around his strengths, and give him the freedom and support to bench underperforming malcontents or cut/trade them and I think you'll see much better results.

Steve B

[HRBAKER]

Steve,

Some good points and the Pats may be a strong org from top to bottom, but IMO, swap out Brady for Romo and you have no where near the same team/results.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Alan and Scott,
You two think that the talent on this team is Super Bowl caliber and all that's missing is the right coach?

??? YOU said that, not me.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Runscott

??? YOU said that, not me.

I misinterpreted this line from your previous post:


I tend to agree with Alan that if you bring a good coaching staff in, you turn this team around fairly fast.

Sorry about that./

[HRBAKER]

IMO opinion in this league the way the rules are set up today, unless you are very lucky or have a super-stifling D you almost need an elite quarterback to compete, Eli and the Giants excepted as outliers.

As a lifelong Cardinal football fan I can attest to what difference a great QB makes, Kurt Warner took an above average team to within 1:32 of winning a Super Bowl.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

IMO opinion in this league the way the rules are set up today, unless you are very lucky or have a super-stifling D you almost need an elite quarterback to compete, Eli and the Giants excepted as outliers.

As a lifelong Cardinal football fan I can attest to what difference a great QB makes, Kurt Warner took an above average team to within 1:32 of winning a Super Bowl.

It's funny, I was actually very upset at the Giants organization when they benched Kurt Warner, in favor of the Rookie, Eli Manning.

Long run, it turned out to be the right call, but it's hard as a fan when you see a team in the playoff hunt, throw that away halfway through the season, for the sole purpose of seasoning a rookie QB who has no chance of winning many games at the time.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Steve,

Some good points and the Pats may be a strong org from top to bottom, but IMO, swap out Brady for Romo and you have no where near the same team/results.

Well, I think it's unfair to compare almost anybody to Brady...........but as was mentioned earlier, Matt Cassell did very well with this team, and I don't think any team in the league would trade Romo for Cassell.

Wonder if anybody realizes this. Tony Romo has the 4th highest career passer rating in league history as of today. Just behind Steve Young and just ahead of Peyton Manning. Yes, this is more a product of the modern passing game and modern rules then anything.........but it's a hell of an argument against people claiming he's "average" or even "below average" when compared to his peers.

So the question persists.............WHO should the Cowboys go out and get so they can jettison him. Should they just scrap the whole team and rebuild from scratch..........hope they can snag a Luck or Griffin type in the draft?

[HRBAKER]

Dave,

That's a good point about Cassell and as someone who lives in Kansas City, I can attest that it wasn't him carrying the team on his back when Brady was out.

I am not sure it is Romo that is the sum total of the issue. I am not sure that on balance this is a roster that is Super Bowl-competitive Romo or no Romo.

My original point was that they are a bunch of IMO over-hyped under achievers meaning the team not Romo is particular.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I misinterpreted this line from your previous post:


I tend to agree with Alan that if you bring a good coaching staff in, you turn this team around fairly fast.

Sorry about that./

Well, your interpretation makes sense. When I say "turn around", I'm thinking of stringing together consecutive 'big' wins to start. For instance, last year they collapsed and didn't make the playoffs - I would expect a good coach to have taken that team farther, perhaps to the NFC championship and maybe the Superbowl. This year's team looks beaten, but I still think a coaching change, even at this point, could get them into the playoffs.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

So the question persists.............WHO should the Cowboys go out and get so they can jettison him. Should they just scrap the whole team and rebuild from scratch..........hope they can snag a Luck or Griffin type in the draft?

I felt that Jones had had enough after last season, and I fully expected him to go after Andrew Luck. Trying to get into Jones' brain, I figured he might think of Luck as the next Aikman. I watched the draft eagerly, expecting a last-minute deal.

Now, I have no idea as to a quarterback strategy, but I think it all starts with getting rid of Garrett. If they did that today, they might start performing up to their hype tomorrow - coaching changes can make a very quick difference if you do indeed have talent on your team, which I think the Cowboys do.

[Runscott]

1. Dez Bryant - stepping out of bounds, unmolested, 1/2 yard short of a first down when his team is down 10-0.
2. Doug Free - provides almost zero protection for Tony Romo on the right side
3. Jerry Jones (obviously) - for sticking with Garrett

4. Rob Ryan - I think it's safe to add this guy after the first half today.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Runscott

1. Dez Bryant - stepping out of bounds, unmolested, 1/2 yard short of a first down when his team is down 10-0.
2. Doug Free - provides almost zero protection for Tony Romo on the right side
3. Jerry Jones (obviously) - for sticking with Garrett

4. Rob Ryan - I think it's safe to add this guy after the first half today.

1. agreed, plus he lost a fumble
2. if Free TOUCHED the defender before letting him run straight at Romo it'd be an improvement
3. JJ needs to hire a GM. He's great as an owner, but would ANY other team in the NFL hire JJ as a GM? no. but he's the GM of this franchise. unacceptable.
4. defense played a much better 2nd half. in the first half, the safeties were outplayed and looked foolish multiple times especially on the deep pass to WR Robinson

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

1. agreed, plus he lost a fumble
2. if Free TOUCHED the defender before letting him run straight at Romo it'd be an improvement
3. JJ needs to hire a GM. He's great as an owner, but would ANY other team in the NFL hire JJ as a GM? no. but he's the GM of this franchise. unacceptable.
4. defense played a much better 2nd half. in the first half, the safeties were outplayed and looked foolish multiple times especially on the deep pass to WR Robinson

Yesterday they said Free was either the most penalized player in the NFL, or the most penalized offensive lineman. Either way, as bad as he looks, he must be trying to touch people.

As far as the defense playing great in the 2nd half, we need Ryan to actually have a workable plan going in to the game, as opposed to waiting and adjusting at halftime.

[Runscott]

Okay, another go-round. Last week the Cowboys won, but all of their competitors won as well. Still, a best-case scenario on Monday would leave Dallas tied with New York, Chicago and Seattle, with 2 weeks remaining. Over those remaining two weeks they would need to gain one game on either Chicago OR Seattle, OR one game on New York, in order to make the play-offs.

That's incredible, and undeserved.

Still, as a fan since 1965, I have to hope for it.

[barrysloate]

Nice win for Dallas tonight.

And what's the deal with Seattle? In their last two games they've outscored their opponent 108-17! Has any team ever had back to back 50 point games before?

[Runscott]

Seattle seems to be getting real strong going into the playoffs. It will really be interesting if San Francisco beats them next week - could be a wild-card logjam going into the final week.

Dallas is also finishing strong, but having lost to every team that could be involved in the tiebreakers, I think they are toast.

[CMIZ5290]

Don't be surprised if New Orleans beats Dallas this weekend...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Don't be surprised if New Orleans beats Dallas this weekend...

That can't happen for one simple reason - that would put the Cowboys out of the playoffs, and they need to lose out in the final week, in order to impart maximum frustration on their fans.

[nolemmings]

That can't happen for one simple reason - that would put the Cowboys out of the playoffs, and they need to lose out in the final week, in order to impart maximum frustration on their fans.

Ah, but you're forgetting that getting bumped from the playoffs right before Christmas would bring its own pain. Why enjoy the Holiday with hope aplenty when you can wallow in the crushed dreams of another lost season? Also, remember that for increased agony, the Cowboys must lose at home, not in Washington.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Ah, but you're forgetting that getting bumped from the playoffs right before Christmas would bring its own pain. Why enjoy the Holiday with hope aplenty when you can wallow in the crushed dreams of another lost season? Also, remember that for increased agony, the Cowboys must lose at home, not in Washington.

Actually, losing to Washington and sending them to the playoffs at the same time, would be agony no matter where it took place.

At the moment, things look undeservedly bright for the Cowboys:

If the Giants lose to Baltimore this week, Seahawks beat the 49'ers, and Redskins and Cowboys both win, then...

The winner of next week's Cowboys/skins game gets the division title, and the Giants get nothing. A Giants website said that the loser would get the 2nd wildcard spot, but I'm not sure how that plays out since the Vikings and Bears still can win out and would have a better record. I must be missing something.

So back to the 'Cowboys crush their fans' thing - for this to have maximum effect, the Giants need to beat Baltimore this week. Then the Cowboys lose next week to Washington, and get nothing.

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