Faith in 'Upstream' Authenticators?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...1&postcount=49 That's from 3 years ago. Add Lionel Messi to the list. Were the Luka's signed by his mom? Still up for debate, but it looks like he's changed his signature to match since then.
Add the counterfeit Harper, Mays, Manning, etc., cards that both the card and autograph are real, with fake stamps that have also been slabbed as both the card and auto authentic. I actually still use PSA/DNA for autograph authentication, but mainly on sigs I know are good, since I bought them directly from the sketch artist themselves. I want them to be honest about their accuracy, and refund people when they get duped. My job is to protect servicemembers when they're flying in their combat aircraft. I advocate for more resources on the regular to allow my teams to do a better job of protecting them from incoming missiles. Not sure how much that has to do with whether or not PSA or JSA can identify counterfeit autographs or not.
Many of the companies allow you to get a "witnessed" auto authentication just by providing a copy of the purchase ticket from the same show they're sitting at down the hall. Are those autos that are given to them all signed by the autograph signer at the show? Most are, but some are pocketed and used to pass off fakes, then send in the real autos paid for at a later time to get certed. Does this "witnessed" actually mean anything? It seems like you'd rather shut down the conversation than have an actual debate.

No, all I did was ask you to provide proof or some actual evidence that your outrageous assertion that 30% or "large shares" (whatever that means) of certs by PSA/DNA, JSA, BAS, and SGC are mistakes or mis-identifications" is anywhere near the truth. What I got instead were more isolated examples that, to me, prove the rule of how valuable the services rendered by these companies are, along with your claim of how valuable YOU are to our combat pilots, which of course is to be commended if true. I just don't think anyone trying to throw autograph or card collecting back to the bad old days of widespread fraud with no checks or recourse is doing anybody a favor, let along "protecting" them. By all means hold their feet to the fire on all accounts (if they really do accept a show ticket as proof of an autograph, that's ridiculous, for example). Of course they're not perfect, is your auto mechanic? But I reiterate that the marketplace has long since made its overwhelming conclusion as to the value of their place in the scheme of things and willingness to pay handsomely for it. If you really think they're as bad as you claim, you could protect collectors and make a fortune for yourself at the same time by starting a TPA that narrows the error rate from your purported 30% to, say, 10%. You will be a hero for all time to the collecting community and its first inductee into the hobby Hall of Fame. You might even get a statue somewhere down the line.