Greatest quarterback you have seen?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by rats60

Brady also had the greatest kicker of all time. How many does he win without him? He has had great defenses on the first 3 and he knew what defense the other team was in. I'm still waiting for Brady to win something without cheating. Just look at his playoff record between Spygate and Deflategate and that tells you what you need to know about him. He's the Barry Bonds of the NFL.

While Vinateri is among the best, he's not even the best the pats have had. He was great in bad weather, which counts for a lot here, but was pretty average on longer kicks ~ 50+. Gostkowski is 3% better overall, and much better beyond 50 yards 13/17 compared to 23/41. Vinateri has been much better indoors at Indy. He gets a lot of props for kicking so many winners in big games. Only time will tell if Gostkowski keeps up the pace he's on.

I'm a Pats fan and a big fan of both Brady and Vinateri but wouldn't rank either as #1 all time at their position. Brady wins a lot, and with supposedly very little, but there's always at least one very good receiver and a bunch of guys who would be farther up the depth chart anywhere else. That's makes for odd statistical stuff because of a system that emphasizes individual matchups and depth. Not many players will put up huge numbers in NE, but more will get decent playing time. The exceptions are the guys like Moss, Welker, and Gronk. And even Gronk has games where he's not a primary part of the offense. Hard to keep him out of it, but there's games where you can tell he's doing more blocking and pulling defenders away from the play than being the primary receiver.

To keep on topic- I've been thinking over the original question and keep coming back to some interviews with players who mentioned Bradshaw as the smartest player they'd played with or against and that he called his own plays. If that's correct, I'd have to lean toward him as the best I've seen.

Steve B