All right guys, we all know baseball..Who's the best in your mind?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

For position players I've seen play, I'd go with Clemente, Griffey, Jr., and Bench.

For pitchers, Koufax (didn't see him much, but that was enough), Pedro, Seaver, and Maddux.

I would include Bonds and Clemens, but no one knows exactly when the juicing started...so I have to leave them off.

Best in his lifetime : Babe Ruth

The sad thing about Bonds is that he never had to juice. He wouldn't have broken Hank Aaron's home run record, or McGwire's, but he'd have been a first ballot Hall of Famer, anyway. He ruined his legacy.

By the end of his age 30 season, which is before Bonds would have started taking PED more than likely, he had 999 runs, 1,436 hits, 306 doubles, 48 triples, 292 home runs, 864 RBI, 340 stolen bases and a .938 OPS. He'd won 3 MVPs, 5 Gold Gloves, and 5 Silver Slugger Awards. I mean, to be at 300 HR and 300 SB, at age 31...all he had to do was stay healthy, and he was clearly on his way.

The next three years, he hit .300 with 119 HR, 352 RBI, and 105 SB. He had a 1.051 OPS in those three years. He won 3 more Gold Gloves and 2 more Silver Sluggers. At that point, I don't know if he's using, but he's a Hall of Famer right then.

At the end of the 1998 season, 33 years old, his career numbers:

.290 AVG, 1,364 R, 1,917 H, 403 doubles, 411 HR, 1,216 RBI, 445 SB, .966 OPS. 3 MVP. 8 Gold Gloves. 7 Silver Sluggers.

1999 was the year, I think, that moved him to use. He still hit 34 home runs, but he only hit .262, and only played in 102 games. The next two years, of course, he hit 49 then 73 home runs. The rest was history.

It's too bad.