Maris, Mantle, Tresh, Yankees Ball

[thetruthisoutthere]

You guys have to check this out. Holy crap!!! You have to be kidding me!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Multi-Signed-Yan...item20b838c1ee

The below link is the relisted item. The seller canceled his auction and then relisted it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Multi-Signed-Yan...item1e629bb0b4

Maris-1.jpg

Maris-2.jpg

Maris-3.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Well, here it is. This is "Are You Kidding Me" Part 2. From the same seller as above.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hank-Aaron-and-M...item20b83902cd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-Si...item20b838b875

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-Si...item20b838b485

Maris-4.jpg

Maris-5.jpg

Maris-6.jpg

[Big Dave]

Looks like he got all the balls from the same signer.

[J.McMurry]

Hey Hey!

I see that the first ball has the ultra rare "Dreckey" Mantle signature.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

Hey Hey!

I see that the first ball has the ultra rare "Dreckey" Mantle signature.

That's what I call ugly.

But according to the seller (Frankjprisco) "With over 25 years of experience in the hobby we stand behind the authenticity of every item we sell."

25 years of experience in the hobby!!! Impressive!!!

[GrayGhost]

Hey Chris, who is Tom Trish in the first ball? This guy supposedly has sold some good stuff, this stuff is PITIFULLY bad. Its NOT EVEN CLOSE, and really is an embarrassment to hobby collectors in general.

I hope you reported those sir. Just awful.

[RichardSimon]

He has to be kidding with these balls, right?
Is there anyone on ebay even thinking of bidding on them?
I think not.

[GrayGhost]

Richard, if someone says he has 25 years exp and stands behind his stuff, etc. how could he, with good conscience or even bad, offer such terrible garbage like that?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Hey Chris, who is Tom Trish in the first ball? This guy supposedly has sold some good stuff, this stuff is PITIFULLY bad. Its NOT EVEN CLOSE, and really is an embarrassment to hobby collectors in general.

I hope you reported those sir. Just awful.

Scott, as a major Tom Tresh (my favorite all-time Yankee as you know) collector, I was really pissed when I saw that Tom Tresh forgery on that multi-signed baseball.

These autographed baseballs are just disgraceful.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

He has to be kidding with these balls, right?
Is there anyone on ebay even thinking of bidding on them?
I think not.

Richard, believe it or not, but there are bids on two of his Mantle baseballs.

Anyone know who "Piedmont Sport" is?

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Richard, believe it or not, but there are bids on two of his Mantle baseballs.

Anyone know who "Piedmont Sport" is?

Chris,

Piedmont Sport is Frank J Prisco, and he is a member here on Net54. He has a lot of good memorabilia on here, as well as eBay, but those baseballs are terrible.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Chris,

Piedmont Sport is Frank J Prisco, and he is a member here on Net54. He has a lot of good memorabilia on here, as well as eBay, but those baseballs are terrible.

Well, Greg, hopefully Mr. Prisco will read this particular post. Good memorabilia or not, he's lost a lot of credibility here listing garbage like that.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Well, Greg, hopefully Mr. Prisco will read this particular post. Good memorabilia or not, he's lost a lot of credibility here listing garbage like that.

Absolutely agree, it looks more like "Melky" Mantle

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Absolutely agree, it looks more like "Melky" Mantle

All four of his Mantle auctions that are pictured here are horrific at best. Look at all of his bad Mantle autographs, that pitiful Tom Tresh, that disgusting Roger Maris, that pathetic Hank Aaron and even that sorry-looking Joe Pepitone.

It's difficult to imagine that someone who is part of Net54 would list garbage like that.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

It's difficult to imagine that someone who is part of Net54 would list garbage like that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[GrayGhost]

Sadly, the listing of stuff like this has the tendency to hurt someone's reputation no matter what. Even if, and its a BIG IF, these were pulled by the seller, people remember that horrific stuff like that was listed to start with.

I've seen some of his stuff on ebay before and he had some excellent items. I don't get this at all.

Scott Roberts

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Sadly, the listing of stuff like this has the tendency to hurt someone's reputation no matter what. Even if, and its a BIG IF, these were pulled by the seller, people remember that horrific stuff like that was listed to start with.

I've seen some of his stuff on ebay before and he had some excellent items. I don't get this at all.

Scott Roberts

I echo your thoughts, Scott. I don't get it either. I'm sure we would all like to hear from him.

[RichardSimon]

I looked at his listings, they are quality items, and it seems he uses JSA a lot.
I do believe that JSA would never have authenticated these items.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I looked at his listings, they are quality items, and it seems he uses JSA a lot.
I do believe that JSA would never have authenticated these items.

He knows it would have been a waste of money to send that garbage to JSA. We've exposed some ugly autographs here at Net54 at times, but these are as horrific as they come.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Has anyone heard from Frank Prisco about his auctions? I am shocked that his garbage hasn't been removed by Ebay yet.

Frank? You out there?

[Leon]

I emailed Frank and he responded that he thinks the balls are good and if they don't pass authentication then he will refund the sale price. It was a fairly long email from him but he stands behind the balls. In my initial email to him I told him that even someone that doesn't know signatures, like me, thinks they look really bad. Here is a paraphrase of his response to me. It is cut and pasted and not taken out of context. I don't feel comfortable posting his whole email per the rules on the board. regards


"I'm not at the shop but the scans on the single signed look ok to me and the multi signed is on a Reach ball again who's putting tresh on that ball - if they fail as always I refund all monies - sounds like sour grapes because all the auction forgers being exposed -"
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[RichardSimon]

Leon - he uses JSA a lot.
Can you ask him why he did not use JSA on these baseballs?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Leon - he uses JSA a lot.
Can you ask him why he did not use JSA on these baseballs?

The email I just now sent him is below- I didn't want to totally paint him into a corner so left him an out. His response, or not, when he responds .


"Hi Frank
Someone asked why you didn't use JSA on those balls? IF you would like to answer it would be great. If not, I understand
thanks
leon"

[Leon]

I will paraphrase Frank's response for the same reason as before. It is not taken out of context and this is a cut and paste of part of his response. I do believe this will be his last. Anyone is able to contact him themselves, if they so desire- (I took out the prices he paid on purpose)

" I have over 300 items un- certed on ebay - it was my decision just to auction some of these baseballs - i can't buy them for xxx - xxx apiece and then 75-100 for jsa - theres no profit - if the buyer dosen't want to bid because he or she dosen't like them - don't bid"



He reiterated he stands behind them. regards

[GrayGhost]

Well, the fact he stands by them is very good, but again, I'm just surprised he couldn't tell how bad they are. Well, he'll just have to let the auctions run, and refund the winning bidders, unless they don't know what they are looking at.

[thetruthisoutthere]

It is obvious that the people bidding on that stuff do not know autographs (the typical Ebay autograph buyer) and they probably aren't even aware of JSA or PSA.

They are just looking for a inexpensive (cheap) Mantle autograph. I am shocked that Ebay hasn't pulled those auctions.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Leon, nice job contacting Frank, although we are very disappointed in his response.

By the way, Frank, what do you mean by "sour grapes?" "Sour grapes" about what? I saw a bunch of ugly forgeries and I exposed them as I would any other seller on Ebay selling horrific autographs. Even if you didn't want to have them certed by JSA why didn't you at the very least submit them to "Quick Opinion" and post the result in your auction if you are so confident they are authentic?

I see the bidding is on fire on those auctions. That Mantle/Aaron ball is at a whopping $31.00 with 9 hours to go. All of the Mantle autograph collectors are jumping all over it.

Frank, if I had a autograph auction up on Ebay in which the authenticity was questioned by a few of the members here, I would immediately remove the auction and have it checked by other knowledgeable collectors before I relisted it. There hasn't been one positive response to your four (4) auctions, Frank. I'm curious why you haven't responded to all of the posts here.

I recall you posting a thread about a Connie Mack cut signature. Why didn't you do the same with those Mantle, Maris, Tresh, Berra, Aaron, etc. autographed baseballs?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Frank, I assume you will also refund the buyer's authentication fees if by chance they get wind of this thread and decide to send their ball or baseballs to JSA or PSA?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

I will paraphrase Frank's response for the same reason as before. It is not taken out of context and this is a cut and paste of part of his response. I do believe this will be his last. Anyone is able to contact him them self if they want to- (I took out the prices he paid on purpose)

" I have over 300 items un- certed on ebay - it was my decision just to auction some of these baseballs - i can't buy them for xxx - xxx apiece and then 75-100 for jsa - theres no profit - if the buyer dosen't want to bid because he or she dosen't like them - don't bid"



He reiterated he stands behind them. regards

I'd like to know why he bought that garbage. Just another case of another hobby store owner who doesn't know autographs; but even someone who doesn't know autographs would be hesitant to buy THOSE autographs. They are miserably and horribly ugly.

[RichardSimon]

But Frank,,, doesn't a JSA cert mean that you will get a higher price when you sell the item??
That is the hobby scuttlebutt,,, I am not saying that myself.

[novakjr]

I've run across this thread a few times and didn't even bother looking. Just figured it was the typical iffy signatures that we all notice everyday. Anyways, I was bored and a little insomniatic tonight, and decided to open it for the hell of it. And Holy Crap, are these bad! WOW, is all I can say. These honestly made me laugh...

[thetruthisoutthere]

Here are the final bid prices for those auctions by Ebay seller "Frankjprisco."

Item number 140529677445 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529678453 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529697485 (Mantle/Aaron signed baseball): $45.55

Item number 130503389364 (Mantle, Maris, Tresh, Maris, etc) signed baseball): $228.50

Those four auctions will make a nice intro for my next video.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Here are the final bid prices for those by Ebay seller "Frankjprisco."

Item number 140529677445 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529678453 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529697485 (Mantle/Aaron signed baseball): $45.55

Item number 130503389364 (Mantle, Maris, Tresh, Maris, etc) signed baseball): $228.50

Those four auctions will make a nice intro to my next video.

And I cannot wait to see it. I always look forward to your YouTube videos, they are awesome. Keep up the good work, Chris.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Here are the final bid prices for those by Ebay seller "Frankjprisco."

Item number 140529677445 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529678453 (Mantle signed baseball): $153.50

Item number 140529697485 (Mantle/Aaron signed baseball): $45.55

Item number 130503389364 (Mantle, Maris, Tresh, Maris, etc) signed baseball): $228.50

Those four auctions will make a nice intro to my next video.

Multiple bidders on every one of those items,,, what can I say??
The buyer who won the multi signed ball has a feedback of 2,, another example of a knowledgable colletor I am sure.

[FUBAR]

Morons!

I call it natural selection... a fool and their money are soon parted!

[thetruthisoutthere]

I went back to check on the links to these four auctions and evidently they have been "Voided" by Ebay.

[GrayGhost]

Interesting Chris... Anyways, any idea when your next vid will be up?

[Piedmont Sport]

While I think its great that we regulate ourselves and protect the hobby we all love. I try and do my very best to ensure each customer is satisfied and receives every item as described. Here is a quick note and a few pictures to help explain why I chose to stay out of the hater group. Its easy to challenge and pick on items without giving any explanation as to why you believe they are not authentic signatures. We try and send as much as we can to PSA, JSA, Beckett and SGC. Our inventory is so large that it becomes impossible to get a third party opinion on every item. So many times we make our decisions based on our knowledge and where the item originated from. These baseball that were in question came from a relative of former umpire Jim Honochick. So I have attached the Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron ball. The Mantle ball was addressed to Harold Caplan. I have also attached another ball that I purchased approximately six months ago from the same family member signed by Ted Williams and again addressed to Harold Caplan. The Williams ball I had JSA certify, when Spence came to our shop. After the auctions were removed, I just wanted to get a quick opinion on the Mantle, Aaron ball since Chris Williams said both the Mantle and the Aaron were horrible. PSA and JSA quick opinioned the Aaron and said that it was perfect. They both said they would need a closer look at the Mantle. I am going to give PSA this ball and post their decision when I receive it. I had no intention of ever taking advantage of anyone, if anyone choses to come into my shop and review my inventory I welcome it. I also post our toll free number 888.767.5090 and welcome any questions on any of my items before purchasing. There is not one person on this forum who ever bothered to call me. Everyone hid behind their computers and just ragged on some of my items. I find that completely disturbing and its one reason I refuse to respond while the auctions were running. I do want to end saying I think Chris Williams as well as many others do a great job on the bogus stuff listed on Ebay as well as auctions who continue to list manufactured items jerseys baseballs autographs etc. I applaud your effort. So I again welcome anyone to visit me at any convention, come into my shop and inspect my items. I am proud of what I do and I stand behind every item I sell. Please review the pictures and call me if you need. Everyone rips Spence and PSA/DNA and put themselves out there as they are the lone expert. to error is human and I can tell you I have letters of apology from both companies listed above on their errors. Its has become my choice to move away from many of the so called main line autographs, such as DiMaggio, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Ali and Ruth. My main focus has now shifted to memorabilia and photographs.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Frank, I, for one, appreciates your reply. I was looking at your Ebay auctions and you sell some really cool stuff. No one is perfect and that includes me. We are all human.

Did I jump on you a little hard here? Maybe. Should we (I) have given you a little slack here? Maybe. I have no doubt there was no "bad intent" on Mr. Prisco's part. But at the same time with all of the controversy surrounding those auctions I thought you would have taken them down yourself and have them checked before listing them again. That's the puzzling part to me, Frank. You sell a lot of JSA certed autographs, including Mantle items, and I would have thought you would have second-guessed them yourself.

Frank, I will also admit that I might be wrong on that Aaron. I failed (which I never do) to look at my earlier exemplars of Hank Aaron's signature. So I will take my medicine on that one. I won't go back on those Mantle autographs (one is possibly a clubhouse at best). And I won't go back on that Maris.

Once again, I appreciate your reply here, Frank.

[mr2686]

Chris,
First of all, I really enjoy your videos and your comments on this board. I think what you do for the hobby is much needed and I hope you will continue. I also think you are a stand-up guy for your last reply to this thread for admitting you had not checked your older exemplars for Aaron.
Now, with that said, I think you are also doing a disservice to your cause by letting your enthusiasm cloud your judgement on certain items. I think every item, no matter where it's from or who it's authenticated by, should stand on it's own merits and not be lumped in to a group.
Now, with THAT said, if PSA or Spence really need a second look at that Mantle, then I think they've totally lost it. For that matter, if either comes back saying it's authentic, I will never use them again.
Just my .02
Mike

[Piedmont Sport]

Mike - I guess you won't be using them - because I'm certain the Aaron will get a full letter - I would not be so quick to judge any autograph that dosen't look like a show auto. Just because it dosen't have the swirls or loop's that the 80's 90's Baseball Card Convention sig's had - dosen't mean it's alway's bad. As a matter of fact those are the ones that are mostly forged. Remember there was a time when people and kids would run up and get a players sig. and many appear NOT to look like the Show autograph - This was before Auction houses and Dealers started to trace and create their own authenicating services and deem whats good and not good. Its very important to know where that autograoh came from. That's my 2 cents.

[mr2686]

Frank,

I never said anything about the Aaron. As a matter of fact, I believe it's good based on older sigs that I have seen. As for the Mantle, the only way PSA or Spence can authenticate that is if they have "proven" exemplars that look like that...and they don't because there aren't any. Guess what, I have many Mantle in person sigs, as well as being in Hotel bars where he and Ford were drinking and seeing how they signed for people that walked up to them, and they were nothing like this. Maybe if someone walked up to him on his death bed, but that's about it.
I guess, using your logic, if it looks nothing like a normal Mantle sig, then it must be good because the forgers wouldn't do that.
That's 2 more cents for the pot.

[Piedmont Sport]

Hard to imagaine anyone forging a good 50's Aaron with a bad Mantle and address it to Harold Kaplan - as my photo's show same guy on the Williams ball that got cert'd by Spence. I have a great collection of so called good mantles - williams - joe d's with LOA'S that are bad.

[mr2686]

Soooooooo, you're basing the authenticity of the autograph based on it being addressed to someone that also has the same address on a good autograph for another player? Wow.

[Piedmont Sport]

Dosen't everyone do the same process - Coaches Corner - Chris Moralas - STAT - and so on and so on - are you buying stuff from them or just walking away assuming it's bad. Maybe you would like to buy some mantles from me they come with full letters or i can list them on ebay because they are from one of the good sources - Chris Williams would do an Omen move his head would spin around - lol

[mr2686]

Ok..so now you're comparing yourself to Coaches Corner, Stat, Morrales? I've heard enough thanks. Beam me up Scotty.

[Piedmont Sport]

You took it wrong - I WOULD NOT BUY FROM THESE PEOPLE - and i would not expect you to as well - I just phrased it incorrectly - my point was we all in some way make decsions on where the material came from or who's selling it.

[mr2686]

Frank, fair enough. It's just that I've seen many collections where they had balls, pictures, etc etc that were signed "To" someone, yet they didn't get them in person. There's no way to know who actually signed them unless you were there, or have "known" exemplars of the sig or writing to help make the determination (by the way, the rest of the writing looks bad too).
It's very easy to have an actual authentic sig be deemed bad. Maybe the signer was having a bad day, was sick...whatever...just enough to make his sig a little different. It's not the authenticators job to guess that maybe that was the situation so they would probably determine it wan not good. As easy as that is, there is no way to make a really bad sig authentic...which is the case here. Sorry, but that's not just my opinion. Many people here that could blow my knowledge away are thinking the same thing.
I think we would all appreciate you letting us know what the outcome is of the Mantle ball. Good luck in your future transactions.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

Dosen't everyone do the same process - Coaches Corner - Chris Moralas - STAT - and so on and so on - are you buying stuff from them or just walking away assuming it's bad. Maybe you would like to buy some mantles from me they come with full letters or i can list them on ebay because they are from one of the good sources - Chris Williams would do an Omen move his head would spin around - lol

Frank,

FYI, head spinning around was from that "other" demon movie called The Exorcist