Could be getting scammed ??

[Leon]

Well, I can offer a few thoughts from a board perspective.

1. It is ok, and preferred, to out someone that has scammed on the board. That being said you better be real sure of what you are saying. You are legally liable for anything you say on this board. (I am not liable for what anyone else says but am liable for what I say )

2. It is not ok to post addresses or phone numbers or other confidential contact information, except with the approval of the other party OR if it is an extremely obvious scam. Then I/we would love to see as much info posted as possible. That is extreme and rarely happens. I think it happened most recently in the Edwin Arroyo case. He is a well know thief and his info is not protected at all. I can say he is a well known thief as I have emails from him admitting to it. I think he, and his cohorts, days are numbered too . I have nixed out the exact addresses on the envelope above and part of the confirmation numbers. They did match.

3. On the subject at hand I can't really tell who is right and who is wrong at the moment. I am sure it will be clear soon. This board is like a snapping turtle when it bites something.

4. It is worth mentioning that there is a "caveat emptor" premise on this board. Besides normal legal channels the only thing I, or any moderator could do (if warranted), is ban someone from the board.

[bigfish]

Thanks for bringing this to light. People might want to use insurance and choose who they sell stuff to on the BST. Sorry it happened to both of you. Threats seem like a strong response over 200.00 worth of cards........

[jb217676]

So why was this envelope delivered in this condition? It should have been bagged and tagged. Something doesn't seem right. Larry, we need your expertise!

(Thanks Dave, can't wait to get the football cards!)

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Something isn't adding up here!

So you got a package in the mail that was supposed to have 2 graded cards in it and it arrived "empty" (I assume it would have been obvious that two slabbed cards weren't inside) but you then opened it? or is the huge rip on the side the way it arrived? If it is the latter you really owe the original seller an apolgy--threatening someone right off the bat is lame!

$2.50 is not what it would cost to send an empty bubble mailer with DC--so at some point there was something in that bubble mailer!

I would be REALLY pissed if I was the seller and you just posted my address on the internet for all to see!

-Rhett

I completely agree with Rhett on this issue. The buyer is completely wrong in making threatening accusations without getting all the facts. Since this package was handled by a postal worker as indicated on the receipt (clerk 02), there obviously was something inside that package when it left. It is possible to manipulate an automated machine by adding weight to the outside of a package, then print the postage (machine doesn't know better). That is why I hardly ever use an automated machine at the post office unless I know who the buyer is.
Sorry that this played out here, but I don't think the seller did anything wrong.
r/
Frank

[scottglevy]

I can think of two instances where mail containing cards was not delivered to my dad or I. In one instance, the package was insured and noone was financially harmed (although I really wanted the card) -- that one was clearly an inside job.

The other instance is purely a mystery....a low value item just magically vanished. The seller made good on a small value purchase even though he swore that it was sent .... and that was the end of it.

Moral of the story....but buyer and seller could conceivably be telling the truth.

Best wishes for a clean resolution,
Scott

[smtjoy]

My two cents on Insurance-

Sometimes I just dont understand why anyone selling anything over say $50 just does not include insurance in the cost of an item they are selling, including both here and ebay. By spending that $3 you would have totally avoided this and many other thing that can go wrong when sending anything valuable in the mail. On ebay Insurance protects the seller and while it's the sellers choice on the bst man it sure makes sense.

So in this instance someone is going to be out $200, ouch. I am not knocking the seller looks like he did his part on this transaction but I just don't think it's smart to be selling and not take this into account.

[Chris-Counts]

I agree, Scott. I insure everything over $20 regardless whether the seller asks for it. It's just seems simpler that way and it doesn't cost that much ...

Originally Posted by smtjoy

My two cents on Insurance-

Sometimes I just dont understand why anyone selling anything over say $50 just does not include insurance in the cost of an item they are selling, including both here and ebay. By spending that $3 you would have totally avoided this and many other thing that can go wrong when sending anything valuable in the mail. On ebay Insurance protects the seller and while it's the sellers choice on the bst man it sure makes sense.

So in this instance someone is going to be out $200, ouch. I am not knocking the seller looks like he did his part on this transaction but I just don't think it's smart to be selling and not take this into account.

[Leon]

I have a different view of insurance. In my auction business I have CIA coverage on everything. It's just what ya' do in the business to have that "warm fuzzy". It's an easy decision.

On my personal trades and sales (as I cross my fingers) I rarely buy insurance. I always get DC or Sig Confirmation but that is it. So far, in 14'ish yrs I have 'eaten' one large item. It sucked and it was totally crazy on my part. I should have sent it overnight as is my policy and it would have been fine. I am a firm believer in DC or Sig Conf on everything though. Insurance is usually at the request of the other party and I am happy to oblige if they want to pay for it.

On our BST, if nothing at all is said, then both parties really have the onus of getting their part of the deal to the other party. So, if you send something and doesn't get to the other party, and no insurance was talked about, then it's on you. Just my opinion.

[egbeachley]

Overall, insurance is a waste of money.

But seriously, can we get a detail scan of the cards here so when they turn up, and they eventually will be sold to someone, there is proof that they are stolen and whoever is out the cash will get their cards back.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have a different view of insurance. In my auction business I have CIA coverage on everything. It's just what ya' do in the business to have that "warm fuzzy". It's an easy decision.

On my personal trades and sales (as I cross my fingers) I rarely buy insurance. I always get DC or Sig Confirmation but that is it. So far, in 14'ish yrs I have 'eaten' one large item. It sucked and it was totally crazy on my part. I should have sent it overnight as is my policy and it would have been fine. I am a firm believer in DC or Sig Conf on everything though. Insurance is usually at the request of the other party and I am happy to oblige if they want to pay for it.

On our BST, if nothing at all is said, then both parties really have the onus of getting their part of the deal to the other party. So, if you send something and doesn't get to the other party, and no insurance was talked about, then it's on you. Just my opinion.

Leon, Do you have separate CIA coverage on your personal collection as well?

If so, doesn't that cover your persoanl trades and sales?

[T206DK]

the cards were 2 PSA 5's here. One was Red Murray's Portrait, and the other was Deacon Phillippe.





I don't have any better scans , but at least you can read the cert. numbers on the labels. If someone tries to sell these online in the cases they just might get caught by someone on the forum.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

Leon, Do you have separate CIA coverage on your personal collection as well?

If so, doesn't that cover your persoanl trades and sales?

Personally, I don't have insurance on my cards. All of my valuable ones are in a very safe place.....

[egbeachley]

The way the corners round, black dots on border, white dots on the background, and other slight imperfections will easily identify this card outside the slabs.

[T206DK]

well I thought I would post before going out for some St. Patricks day celebrating today. Bill (BBSPORTS) did a little detective work on his own and is going to be filing a complaint with his post master about this package. He also apologized to me in a nice way and I gladly accepted his apology. I hope the proper authorities will now investigate for Bill so this doesn't happen again. I consider this issue put to rest though. thanks everyone for your input and help. I hope I get to meet some of you all at the National

[bbsports]

Dave- I just want you to know that the post office did inspect the package today & it was tampered with. He claims because it wasn't insured, I won't be get my money back, even though the cards were in the package when it was shipped. I will continue to pursue this matter till this is resolved the right way. I will leave you with this note: although I was wrong thinking you had to do anything to do with this package and I'm glad for that, I felt that this should had been handled privately beteeen us & not publicly with net54. When things had settled down, & if you wanted to share the story with the public, thats would have been fine.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by bbsports

Dave- I just want you to know that the post office did inspect the package today & it was tampered with. He claims because it wasn't insured, I won't be get my money back, even though the cards were in the package when it was shipped. I will continue to pursue this matter till this is resolved the right way. I will leave you with this note: although I was wrong thinking you had to do anything to do with this package and I'm glad for that, I felt that this should had been handled privately beteeen us & not publicly with net54. When things had settled down, & if you wanted to share the story with the public, thats would have been fine.

Why should he have handled it privately when you were not civil to begin with? You immediately threatened him....IMO that cost you ALL of your credibility from the get go. Had you acted like a gentleman to start with, I doubt any of us would have ever known about this incident.

[pwilk17]

It seems to me that the package was probably opened after delivery by USPS. Someone else may have had access to your mail.

[usernamealreadytaken]

Let's be clear! I bought the Revelle which is also pictured with the stolen cards (which I just received today, thanks T206DK btw). The sale was legit and not associated with the "hot" cards in any way!

[T206DK]

sorry for not specifying that the Revelle was not part of this transaction. I'm glad it arrived safely though !! the 2 PSA 5's are the cards in question. I have already started to search Ebay everynight for both in case they turn up for sale.

[teetwoohsix]

I think pwilk17 has a good point.I would talk to the delivery person,if you have a regular carrier,and ask him/her if they remember the package.You can also see if it was a sub that day.
I'm sure there is theft within the ranks of the USPS,but in this economy it seems insane that a regular carrier (or sub for that matter) would risk losing their job over what "might" be in the package.
At any rate,I'm glad to see you both worked it out with each other,it sounds like you both are the victims here.
You may also want to contact your local card shops to see if someone has tried to sell the cards to them,or give them a heads up to be on the look out for them.
My regular carrier is very good,he has gotten mail to me before that wasn't adressed correctly-so I suggest talking to your regular carrier.
Sincerely,Clayton

[FUBAR]

the envelope was probably touched by 10 different postal workers, might not be the carrier, could have been emptied long before he got the envelope