Any Reaction to Legendary Auction Prices

[barrysloate]

I figured winner was from the east coast, underbidder from the west.

[oldjudge]

From what I know I am pretty sure you are wrong on the underbidder.

[barrysloate]

Is there a new player in town?

[oldjudge]

Barry--Not that I am aware of

[barrysloate]

Well somebody placed the 65K bid on the K-Bat...or was it just a computer glitch?

[oldjudge]

or something else

[calvindog]

Wasn't that JC's card?

[barrysloate]

NM

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kenjrrice

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

[HeroesOfSport]

I am new to this board, but want to get a few opinions. I'm in the process of putting my first auction together, and have had a few consignors who want to put reserves on items. I usually try to discourage reserves because I feel it actually hurts the bidding potential on a lot. However, some consignors won't consign unless they have a reserve to protect their investment.

Do you think it is better to have a reserve or high starting bid?

[sports-rings]

I feel minimums are bad and they are worse when you don't know if and when a minimum is hit. If the seller must have a minimum, I feel it should be the starting price. If the starting price is too high for some bidders than so be it, at least with this method, the bidders know where they stand are not in for disapointment after they think they won an auction.

[Leon]

My opinion, and this is as a collector bidding in auctions, is that as long as I know what I am shooting for I don't care if it's a higher starting bid, in which case if I am the high bidder at end, and the item didn't meet reserve I will then have a shot at it at the minimum, or if it starts out at the minimum. I don't personally like completely hidden reserves or even worse, not knowing there is a reserve until after I think I won. At least if I know there was a reserve I don't get excited thinking I definitely won it when I am high bidder at auction end. Double or triple hidden reserves are the worst.....Just my 2.2 cents....

[daviddbreadman]

I wish Doug Allen would comment on some of the other questions that have been presented publicly.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

Wait - so Ken was wrong about the message he received, but Doug did confirm there was a hidden reserve on the lot?

[CTDean]

Originally Posted by Leon

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CTDean

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

I wouldn't hypothesize too much. I have an email into Doug for clarification. He did go on to to say :

"In total 6 Gibson items and the Mantle glove were the only Sports lots with reserves. Every one of them sold."

I don't want to post the whole email as I think he was frustrated but the pertinent parts have now been posted. Make of it what you want, I guess.

And to Matt- His email seemingly intimated there was a reserve.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CTDean

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

I really don't know the answer to that. I am just the messenger of one email.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

And to Matt- His email seemingly intimated there was a reserve.

To me, that's the bottom line issue that came out of Ken's post. I could care less if the Bob Gibson checks sold or not, but the revelation that Mastro/Legendary is putting double hidden reserves on lots is important.

[Leon]

Doug sent a bit of a clarification on the Legendary "reserve" situation....

this below is cut and pasted but was the entirety of 2 emails.....I hightlighted the one part below, he didn't.....



"Here are the reserves...as bids were accepted the site clearly stated if reserve was met:

1970 Gibson Cy Young - $40k reserve met.
Gibson Gold Glove - $10k reserve met
Gibson Checks - $20k reserve met
Gibson 11 Contracts - $10k reserve not met...Bob accepted bid of $5,500 after auction
Gibson 1964 World Series Ring - $30k reserve met.
Mantle Game Used Glove - $35k reserve met.

Other than a handful of coin lots there were no other lots with reserves in the auction."

Additionally we Do Not bid for the reserve. If there was no competitive bid the person would need to outbid themself in order to progress toward the reserve."

Doug

[Rob D.]

Thanks, Leon.

And thanks for continuing to serve as Net54's Annie Sullivan to Mastro/Legendary's Helen Keller.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Thanks, Leon.

And thanks for continuing to serve as Net54's Annie Sullivan to Mastro/Legendary's Helen Keller.

No Problem, Rob. I've been called worse .

[Rob D.]

Well, it actually was a compliment to you.

[oldjudge]

The fact that the reserve is not bid makes it a lot more palatable to me. At least that way there is no confusing the reserve with another bidder.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Thanks, Leon.

And thanks for continuing to serve as Net54's Annie Sullivan to Mastro/Legendary's Helen Keller.

Only 10:30 am here the on left coast and my day has already been made.

[Exhibitman]

What's the line at Caesar's on whether Gibson actually gets paid?





I kid Mastro, er, Legendary.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What's the line at Caesar's on whether Gibson actually gets paid?





I kid Mastro, er, Legendary.

The real question is what are the odds on Gibson being paid before turtle guy.
I would say Gibson is the prohibitive favorite as I am sure Mr Allen would not want to get plunked in the ribs when he steps up to the plate and Gibson is pitching. And my guess is that Gibson can still throw harder than turtle guy,, nothing personal turtle guy.

[CTDean]

Doug's clarification of the reserves, and the fact that the Auction House does not bid the reserve explains things very well.

[turtleguy64]

No offense taken by turtleguy.Richard,have you ever heard the story of what happened on a Vietnam tour of major league all stars back in the late stages of that war,involving Bob Gibson and Graig Nettles?

[RichardSimon]

No I have never heard that story.

[Rich Klein]

Was that since Legendary has a need to be super transparent in their auction process; that for future catalogs; ANY and all reserves need to be stated in both their catalog and thus in their on-line descriptions.

Obviously; that should be true for all auction houses in that reserves should be announced immediately; however; in legendary's case, the past history of their preceeding company means they need to be even more cautious. I'm not stating that anything is wrong with this, as this is "standard auction and hobby procedure", but for legendary, the reserve should be annouced immediately.

In addition, the fact that the consigner was willing to take less than the reserve for an item; shows that not everything has to hit the reserve for an item to be sold.

This is just MOO in terms of what Legendary (because of their specific and public situation of their previous company) needs to do to keep the perception of themselves as good stewards for their consignors.

Rich

[calvindog]

I was in Chicago on business all day today and was sad I couldn't find a spare minute time to stop by Legendary and get a tour of the new facilities. Maybe next time.

[chiprop]

oops

[turtleguy64]

Great true story which appeared in a recent book about black baseball superstars and the prejudice they experienced on the way to and during their big league careers.Gibson on that Vietnam tour with other big league stars in '70s.Mets travelling secretary arranged hotel accommodations for the group.Graig Nettles publicly berated Mets secretary for the hotel rooms they were booked into and ended his diatribe with a derogatory term usually directed at those of the Jewish persuasion.Gibson overheard this exchange and afterward warned Nettles that in the future should he ever come to bat against him on the field,he was going down on the first pitch.This is what we call a mench.That book is a must read but darn it...I cannot remember the name right now.I loved that Gibson story.

[RichardSimon]

Good guys = turtle guy, Bob Gibson, Hank Greenberg (Greenberg was one of the first to take a stand with Jackie Robinson).
"great guys" = Craig Nettles, miscellaneous Legendary persons.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I was in Chicago on business all day today and was sad I couldn't find a spare minute time to stop by Legendary and get a tour of the new facilities. Maybe next time.

Jeff - they were holding an appreciation party specifically for you,, how could you not make it?? .

[chiprop]

i would have bought you lunch. Should have called me.

[Reginald Marsh]

Lichtman......i'm shocked Legendary did not have a limo waiting for you at the airport. I'm sure they have you on the VIP list and cannot wait and explain how incredible the new and improved version is gonna be. I heard the new facility has a state of the art boardroom where the boys sit around and pre grade all cards with a new super censor computer hence the 42,000 dollar grading fee they just gave to one of their beloved consignors.

[calvindog]

Hey, I'm just happy they haven't banned me from their auctions.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hey, I'm just happy they haven't banned me from their auctions.

As long as your checks clear, you should be good.

[botn]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hey, I'm just happy they haven't banned me from their auctions.

Are you kidding? Banning you? They are assisting in getting cards you bought from them pedigreed. After the deposition they are likely to waive the 18.5% buyer's fee on purchases.

[turtleguy64]

Thanks for including me in that company of real heroes but I'm not worthy of that class.Greenberg fought almost as much prejudice in his time as Jackie did due to his ethnic background.Remember he had 58 dingers one season and just got walked again and again as he approached the 60 hr plateau.Were the pitchers simply "protecting" the Babe ?

[sagard]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

Thanks for including me in that company of real heroes but I'm not worthy of that class.Greenberg fought almost as much prejudice in his time as Jackie did due to his ethnic background.Remember he had 58 dingers one season and just got walked again and again as he approached the 60 hr plateau.Were the pitchers simply "protecting" the Babe ?

Babe was walked at a higher rate in most of his seasons compared to Greenberg during his massive season. I won't argue his getting discriminated against at the end, but over the course of the entire season I would argue he had more opportunities to hit than Ruth.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

Thanks for including me in that company of real heroes but I'm not worthy of that class.Greenberg fought almost as much prejudice in his time as Jackie did due to his ethnic background.Remember he had 58 dingers one season and just got walked again and again as he approached the 60 hr plateau.Were the pitchers simply "protecting" the Babe ?

Greenberg 1938 Season - AB-556 HR-58 BB-119

Babe Ruth 1927 Season _ AB-540 HR-60 BB-137

Plain and simple, the numbers don't lie.

I also don't buy into that "Greenberg fought almost as much prejudice in his time as Jackie did due to his ethnic background"

I don't think it was even close. As a matter of fact, Greenberg retired from the field to become the Cleveland Indians' farm system director and two years later, their general manager and part-owner along with Bill Veeck. During his tenure, he assembled more African American players than any other team executive in the Majors

I don't recall Jackie getting any offers quite like that after he retired unless you consider an executive position at "Chock full of Nuts" on par with being named Director of Farm Systems for a major league team and then two years later being named General Manager and PART OWNER for the same club.

So as anyone can plainly see, no case can be made whatsoever for the claim that "Greenberg fought almost as much prejudice in his time as Jackie did due to his ethnic background"