Greg Morris Overgrading - Page 2

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #51 10-15-2025, 06:01 AM

It's the same on the autograph end of things. There are now so many "authenticators" working for the companies. Insofar as vintage autographed baseball material is concerned, I can count on one hand the number of people who have TPA industry experience with whom I can have a learned conversation on the subject. I certainly don't claim to know each and every person in the industry these days, but nobody has ever approached me with "This guy really knows the material!" regarding anyone I haven't met. Never once in almost 20 years. If the field is indeed rife with experts, occasional praise such as this should be par for the course.

How often is it that the knowledge of the submitter exceeds that of the person examining an item? I'd surmise this happens far more frequently than it should.

Neal · #52 10-15-2025, 07:08 AM

I'd venture to say perhaps SGC (which seems to have adopted PSA grading as of late) missed more of the mark than Greg Morris did .... I'm pretty much done with even caring about grades anymore, as it is all BS nowadays

raulus · #53 10-15-2025, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Truth! Yet people continue sending their cards and money to PSA.

Heck yes! And just be glad you don't get to pay even more.

Zach Wheat · #54 10-15-2025, 12:36 PM

Shane Dale posted a 25 card test and posted the results in a YouTube vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7YDVE30TVc

TLDW summary - GM was pretty accurate overall.

Eric72 · #55 10-15-2025, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

It's the same on the autograph end of things. There are now so many "authenticators" working for the companies. Insofar as vintage autographed baseball material is concerned, I can count on one hand the number of people who have TPA industry experience with whom I can have a learned conversation on the subject. I certainly don't claim to know each and every person in the industry these days, but nobody has ever approached me with "This guy really knows the material!" regarding anyone I haven't met. Never once in almost 20 years. If the field is indeed rife with experts, occasional praise such as this should be par for the course.

How often is it that the knowledge of the submitter exceeds that of the person examining an item? I'd surmise this happens far more frequently than it should.

Sadly, this seems to be the case increasingly more often as of late.

Gorditadogg · #56 10-15-2025, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Always consider the source:

Graders today have no context with which to grade fairly. For example, my client�s brother in law is a PSA grader. He is 29 years old, has worked at PSA for six years, and makes $65k per year! He is not a collector, and to him, it�s just a job! His entire experience with sports cards spans a total of just six years! LoL.

Ladies and gents; these are the backgrounds of some of the graders grading your cards!

That grader sounds qualified to me. If he's been looking at 1000 cards a day for 6 years, he ought to be pretty good at it by now.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

perezfan · #57 10-15-2025, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Truth! Yet people continue sending their cards and money to PSA.

That's really Baaaaaaaad

gregndodgers · #58 10-16-2025, 12:37 AM

A 29 year old grader making just $65K and living in a HIGH cost world is not going to buck the system; they do what they are told. But consider a 58 year old veteran like myself who has been collecting since 1976. There is no way on God�s green earth that I will sacrifice my common sense and knowledge of historical grading standards and assign a grade of 5 to what should be a Near Mint 7 card! I bet Greg Morris falls into the latter category. We know better!!!

bcbgcbrcb · #59 10-16-2025, 01:55 AM

Agreed. If some of you guys would kindly stop sending your grading submissions in to PSA, maybe we can all get our orders back in under three months. Now wouldn’t that be nice……

BTW wish I was making ONLY $65K when I was 29 years old. More like $32K if I was lucky.

toledo_mudhen · #60 10-16-2025, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

It's the same on the autograph end of things. There are now so many "authenticators" working for the companies. Insofar as vintage autographed baseball material is concerned, I can count on one hand the number of people who have TPA industry experience with whom I can have a learned conversation on the subject. I certainly don't claim to know each and every person in the industry these days, but nobody has ever approached me with "This guy really knows the material!" regarding anyone I haven't met. Never once in almost 20 years. If the field is indeed rife with experts, occasional praise such as this should be par for the course.

How often is it that the knowledge of the submitter exceeds that of the person examining an item? I'd surmise this happens far more frequently than it should.

SGC not much better - You've probably seen my rant (a month or so back) where I sent a dozen or so 1955s to SGC - FULLY EXPECTING ALL 5s & 6s - what came back was a crap load of 3s & 4s.

So yea - I am OUT OF THE GRADING GAME for the foreseeable future. I called SGC and was told that - "Yea we can look at them again BUT it will cost you another full Grading Fee" again.

Color me disgusted - been looking at baseball cards and graded baseball cards for nearly 50 years and it appears (to me) that the $Money Grab$ is on full display ATM.

Beercan collector · #61 10-16-2025, 08:40 AM

Piggyback on what Lonnie and Greg kind of mention .
A seller sells a raw pack fresh 56 Topps That has a rough cut calling it near mint,
Buyer sends it to PSA and it gets a four, suddenly the seller is called out for over grading - it’s unfortunate most of the collecting world considers PSA the iron clad end all judge of what a grade is

rand1com · #62 10-16-2025, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Shane Dale posted a 25 card test and posted the results in a YouTube vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7YDVE30TVc

TLDW summary - GM was pretty accurate overall.

Or was PSA so inaccurate as everybody on here claims and the cards were not really NM/M or better?

If you think Greg Morris' graders are very accurate and on a supposedly random lot of 25 cards, PSA was at 88% agreement with GM, that should mean they are also very accurate.

Clearly, the Miscut card was mis-graded by GM so I would say based on this small sample, PSA is very good at grading cards IF GM is also very good.

luciobar1980 · #63 10-16-2025, 09:20 AM

People.. you have to realize.. they list SO MANY CARDS. You can't expect them to look over a card the way PSA does. They take a quick look and give a guess of a grade. If you expect every card to come back as advertised I think you're being unreasonable, sorry. 9 times out 10 a card that presents like that will come back a way higher grade and you can't expect them to see every miniscule flaw. Overall I've been happy with my purchases from Greg Morris.

jchcollins · #64 10-16-2025, 09:43 AM

Even the most highly respected raw graders miss things occasionally. This combined with the inherent subjectivity in equating eye appeal to technical standards means that the longer you do this, the more anomalies you are apt to see pop out. Stories of cards that got a 2 getting cracked out and coming back a 7 are increasingly common.

I don’t hate graded cards, but increasingly as I get older - how the card looks to me and whether or not I’m happy with it in my PC far outweighs what a grader or anyone else might have to say about it. I would be perfectly happy most of the time buying raw from someone like Greg Morris who provides clear scans and where the reasoning behind their grade basically matches up to what you can see before you pull the trigger. Are they going to be 100% perfect 100% of the time? No, of course not. But neither is anyone else - including PSA, SGC, Beckett, and others who are supposedly "experts."

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ASF123 · #65 10-16-2025, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

You can't expect them to look over a card the way PSA does. They take a quick look and give a guess of a grade.

Er....

OhioLawyerF5 · #66 10-16-2025, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

You can't expect them to look over a card the way PSA does. They take a quick look and give a guess of a grade.

Balticfox · #67 10-16-2025, 11:31 AM

It seems to me that most of the complaints in this thread are about PSA/SGC undergrading cards. My complaint is just the opposite. The grading companies don't seem to penalize for toning and thus way overgrade badly toned/tanned/browned cards.

rand1com · #68 10-16-2025, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

People.. you have to realize.. they list SO MANY CARDS. You can't expect them to look over a card the way PSA does. They take a quick look and give a guess of a grade. If you expect every card to come back as advertised I think you're being unreasonable, sorry. 9 times out 10 a card that presents like that will come back a way higher grade and you can't expect them to see every miniscule flaw. Overall I've been happy with my purchases from Greg Morris.

I think you are giving PSA way too much credit as to the time spent looking at each card. I doubt very seriously on 1960's commons they are looking at the card for more than 15-20 seconds. My guess is GM graders spend that much time on each card as well. Of course, on high dollar star cards both probably spend a little more time due to possible highly graded values, but for the kind of cards in this 25 lot sample, likely not much time was spent by either and for the most part they came to the same conclusions.

Yoda · #69 10-16-2025, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

Staring at the scans on the screen definitely makes this card seem like it should grade higher than 3.5.

But then again, it's always dangerous to try to grade cards based on scans on a screen, and there could always be stuff that isn't showing up in the scans.

Or maybe you just got the grader of death, and a little crack and resubmit will get you a more appropriate grade, assuming you can dodge that bullet the next time around.

I'd like to meet the Grader of Death just to see just how tough he is.

doug.goodman · #70 10-16-2025, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

People.. you have to realize.. they list SO MANY CARDS. You can't expect them to look over a card the way PSA does.

I disagree. Using their published numbers of opinions sold, the opinion sellers spend no more time looking at a card than an ebay seller.

perezfan · #71 10-16-2025, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

I'd like to meet the Grader of Death just to see just how tough he is.

If you want to come over here, I can't introduce you... but I can show you a lot of his "work".

perezfan · #72 10-16-2025, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand1com

I think you are giving PSA way too much credit as to the time spent looking at each card. I doubt very seriously on 1960's commons they are looking at the card for more than 15-20 seconds. My guess is GM graders spend that much time on each card as well. Of course, on high dollar star cards both probably spend a little more time due to possible highly graded values, but for the kind of cards in this 25 lot sample, likely not much time was spent by either and for the most part they came to the same conclusions.

This.

I have been told on numerous occasion that 15-20 seconds is pretty standard for common cards like these. Probably very similar to the time GM spends evaluating them.

JustinD · #73 10-16-2025, 02:08 PM

I think it’s definitely closer to NM than a 3.5, but that’s why it’s an opinion. SGC in my belief is tighter on print flaws. I think they might have been extra anal on the inking flaw on yours as this is not a reoccurring issue and just a print flaw.

mortimer brewster · #74 10-16-2025, 03:51 PM

I'm just a broken down old collector trying to piece ungraded sets together. I've purchased thousands of raw cards from GM over the past 12 years. Yet even though I don't particularly care for graded cards I am competing against bidders who think a card is under graded, who are then going to send off the card to be graded. They drive the price up. I have accepted this for star cards and rookies but for a low number 1960 common? jeez.

luciobar1980 · #75 10-17-2025, 08:18 AM

Ok, my point is they are not a grading company, they are a seller selling thousands and thousands of cards.

When you receive a card, look it over. They have a very "no questions asked" return policy. If you go at their word and submit to a grading company without looking a card over, that's on you. And along those lines, if you look a card over and agree with their grade, submit, and are then disappointed with the grade, again, that's on you.

tiger8mush · #76 10-17-2025, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

When you receive a card, look it over. They have a very "no questions asked" return policy. If you go at their word and submit to a grading company without looking a card over, that's on you. And along those lines, if you look a card over and agree with their grade, submit, and are then disappointed with the grade, again, that's on you.

Good point

doug.goodman · #77 10-17-2025, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luciobar1980

When you receive a card, look it over. They have a very "no questions asked" return policy. If you go at their word and submit to a grading company without looking a card over, that's on you. And along those lines, if you look a card over and agree with their grade, submit, and are then disappointed with the grade, again, that's on you.

I agree with your point so much that I previously said pretty much the same thing :

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I'm just saying he was hoping to buy a lottery ticket, not a card.

Nothing wrong with that, I hope he finds a $3 card that he later sells for a zillion dollars, but don't come on here to bad mouth a seller based on a single common and cheap card that he obviously thought it was a quality card himself after receiving it, or he wouldn't have sent it in for an opinion.

If he's going to call out a seller in a thread, maybe he should have titled the thread "Greg Morris & Butchie T Overgrading"

perezfan · #78 10-17-2025, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

SGC not much better - You've probably seen my rant (a month or so back) where I sent a dozen or so 1955s to SGC - FULLY EXPECTING ALL 5s & 6s - what came back was a crap load of 3s & 4s.

So yea - I am OUT OF THE GRADING GAME for the foreseeable future. I called SGC and was told that - "Yea we can look at them again BUT it will cost you another full Grading Fee" again.

Color me disgusted - been looking at baseball cards and graded baseball cards for nearly 50 years and it appears (to me) that the $Money Grab$ is on full display ATM.

Well stated� Same here.

perezfan · #79 10-17-2025, 05:14 PM

NM

ricktmd · #80 10-18-2025, 05:33 PM

My experience was buying a B18 poorly imaged against black so you couldn't see the brown borders, with a See image for condition (which I also find both lazy and irritating) . It was W. Johnson so it was 150.00 to 200.00. I got it and will admit GMC is nice about returns and even pays for returns. I wrote twice saying the item had 4 tack holes and Im sure they must not have known or what have disclosed. They relisted the item without disclosing the tack holes. I wrote again still no reply but because I complained they banned me (I could care less). I reported them to ebay. This type of "we will mislead you but we take returns" is bad news and I reported them to ebay. As we all know ebay allows anything from big sellers so the report wouldn't matter. I think anyone should buy from who they like but they are a crappy seller in my opinion

I get to posts later than most . Anything with reference to grading becomes only about grading, sgc, psa, a topic that has been covered quite a bit, but I will chirp in.....Boy has grading gotten tougher. Im sure many miss the old SGC 5 T206's with rounded corners

Balticfox · #81 10-18-2025, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricktmd

I wrote twice saying the item had 4 tack holes and Im sure they must not have known or what have disclosed. They relisted the item without disclosing the tack holes. I wrote again still no reply but because I complained they banned me....

Greg Morris sure sounds like a sleazebag to me.

mq711 · #82 10-20-2025, 05:40 AM

I have purchased 1K+ cards from GMC over the years and find them to be way more accurately �graded� per TPG standards than the actual company grades. Sure they might miss a few minor problems but resolving a problem with them is much easier the paying another grading fee to PSA to have the problem ignored.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #83 10-20-2025, 07:28 AM

My only complaint is one that is shared by a lot of us, and it's simultaneously (mostly) a compliment:

I end up passing on even looking at the listings in my saved searches when I see it's a GMC listing, because I know it's a waste of time to think I'll get the card for anywhere near what I'd want to pay. They clearly don't need my business, as much as I would love to give them a lot more of it.

Also, the shipping cost and sloooowwwwness to Canada further prevents cost efficiency and convenience. It's not the fault of GMC, it's entirely a USPS matter, but tracked shipments to Canada originating from the LA area are the absolute slowest in the country. I've had many take months to arrive, with a lot of them predating all the DeJoy administration BS. USPS is rife with black holes in the LA area where packages routinely bounce around between various sorting centers forever.

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