Honus Wagner t206 in Goldin tomorrow (6/21/25) - what will it sell for?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How is this any different from me just asking my best friend to push my card into the millions and stop just a dollar before the undeclared reserve price. Lets see if we can get someone in the hook and reel him in. No one would be defending that as ethical. Why is it any different if the auction house is doing it. I’d say it’s even worse.

Even though it says in the fine print that this could happen, me as the bidder of course has no idea whether or not it’s a legitimate bidder on the other end.

I would think any bid on an auction that is not intended in good faith to win an item is a fraudulent bid.

Not much difference, in terms of the impact but in one case the house is telling you that is what is happening and in the other it lacks the disclosure. In my opinion there is a lot of both instances going on in these auctions. Know what you want to pay and be willing to walk away empty handed.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This statement is incorrect. I did not use Goldin bc of their “bidding system”. Indeed, that was not even a consideration for me. Rather, I used Goldin bc i have had a lot of success with them on prior sales (never a reserve), I knew Ken would market the heck out of it (and he did), and because Joe is a friend and I trust him. This is the only card I ever consigned with a reserve (to Goldin or anyone), and bottom line is the card is not yet worth what I need to part with it.

Your own words -- "We discussed at length whether we start the auction at my reserve or whether we run a process, etc."

The "process" here I would characterize as market manipulation. None of this would be the case if you started at your reserve as you had the option to do. Ken advised you correctly. The process, which, yes, many AHs employ, is intended to induce third-party bids that were made only because of the belief the prior bid was a "real" (i.e,, not AH bid). So, you stood a better chance of realizing your minimum sell price by this method than by simply starting at your reserve.

I take you at your word that you did not use Goldin because they employ such a bidding system. As noted, many other AHs employ the same system. The question is the next time you look to sell it, assuming you sell it at auction, will you be willing to either sell with an AH that does not bid on the behalf of the consignor, or in the alternative start the bidding at your reserve price?

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

In their terms and conditions they state that they may bid an item up to just under the reserve.

"vii. Goldin may place bids below the reserve on behalf of the Seller, either consecutively or in response to other bids."

Not much experience myself with big AH’s but im lil bit shocked at this and it doesn’t sit right with me .

As for the auction results that too has me a bit shocked! When was the last time a T206 Wagner did not sell ? What happened here seems like a big “L”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think all auction house bids should show up as such is a bid history.

It would also be cool to know how much it costs to put a reserve on a card like that. It sure couldn't have been free to run the auction and not sell it.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It would also be cool to know how much it costs to put a reserve on a card like that. It sure couldn't have been free to run the auction and not sell it.

A card like that brings eyes to an auction even if it doesn't sell. Most auction houses would pay to have it in their auction.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

bottom line is the card is not yet worth what I need to part with it.

Enough said.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

i think all auction house bids should show up as such is a bid history.

100%

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It would also be cool to know how much it costs to put a reserve on a card like that. It sure couldn't have been free to run the auction and not sell it.

Great question Ben. In this case, Goldin charged me nothing to put a reserve, which is another reason I went with them. As mentioned, there was no way I was letting this go unless I got my number, so I would not consign without a reserve. This is the first time I ever put a reserve on a consignment, so I do not have a ton of experience on the matter. It is my understanding that some AHs charge the consignor the BP on the reserve amount if the card is not sold, some AHs charge a fee, some AHs do not allow reserves, and some allow them without a charge; I expect its all part of each consignment negotiation.

Corey, I will 100% consign to Goldin again, but I expect this is the last and only card I put a reserve on. I will also bid with Goldin -- I know what I am willing to pay and I will bid to that point. That said, I too do not like when the AH can place house bids. I think that sucks. Many/most AHs have the right to do this and I expect many do.

[uniship]

For the Mona Lisa (Honus) the auction houses should pay the consigner virtually ALL of the buyer’s fee (if not more!!!!). It’s the best advertising an auction house can get.

[Casey2296]

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Ryan, do you anticipate any traction for a potential private sale because of this? I would think once the market knows a Wagner is available that it would generate some private discussion. Is there a lock out period where you would have to compensate Goldin if sold privately?
You don’t have to answer but am curious how that would go.

The good news is you get to enjoy your Wagner a bit longer.
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[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

When you have this level of the card, there is only a slim, slim base of actual potential buyers who can and would want to spend that kind of money on an asset that is not as easily liquid at a price and time said wealthy investors would want.

To me too risky to put this kind of money on said asset at this time with us equities and real estate potentially going lower in the upcoming couple of years.

Correct. This environment must definitely affected the price.

[cardsagain74]

Has there ever been such a high profile card up for "auction" at the major houses (where the reality was much closer to an overpriced BIN situation, so it didn't come close to selling?)

Hope this never becomes more of a norm. Not a good look for the industry.

[bcbgcbrcb]

REA Baltimore News Ruth last year

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

REA Baltimore News Ruth last year

I thought that sold - could be wrong

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

-
Ryan, do you anticipate any traction for a potential private sale because of this? I would think once the market knows a Wagner is available that it would generate some private discussion. Is there a lock out period where you would have to compensate Goldin if sold privately?

No lock out period and I dont know who any of the bidders were. The card is always for sale, if I get my number. However, considering Goldin marketed the heck out of it and it did not get my number, I doubt someone will now pay privately what it didn't sell for publicly. As an aside, my number was, I thought, strong but reasonable. Indeed, all but one of the predictions earlier in this thread are above (or around) my contract reserve.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Great question Ben. In this case, Goldin charged me nothing to put a reserve, which is another reason I went with them.

I appreciate you openness in answering questions about this auction.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I thought that sold - could be wrong

It did. I don't know what Baltimore News Ruth he's referring to.

[bcbgcbrcb]

My mistake. I was thinking about the Dunn from the same set that didn’t sell.

[Exhibitman]

Manipulation is a really loaded concept. It implies some sort of nefarious act. i don't think that's right. Goldin did nothing wrong. With respect to reserves, Goldin's rules are crystal clear on the point:

"All lots have a minimum bid designated in the catalog and the on-line listing. Certain lots may also have a reserve, which is the confidential price below which the lot will not be sold. The reserve may be greater than the minimum bid. At 10 p.m. eastern time on the day before the auction is set to close, a lot which has an unmet reserve will state “reserve not met’ in the individual lot page online. If the bidding does not meet the reserve at the close of the auction, the lot will be designated as “a pass, reserve not met".

If reserves are legal and the AH follows the law, it is fair, just part of the business. Nothing to see here, folks.

Also, not everything has to be an outright sale to be useful. We've learned that there is a ceiling on what a Wagner will bring in rough condition.