Counterfeits -- anyone having issues?

[OlderTheBetter]

They're out there floating around and sometimes can be hard to spot unless you protect yourself by using a loupe. At 10d you can clearly see the pixelation but at a first glance they look great. Colors on both front and back match well, etc.

I have some that I knowingly purchased cheaply to assess the counterfeiters current state of expertise. IMHO some of these are so good that they would fool many collectors if they were roughed up a tad to simulate wear.

Of course buying grading cards is an option, but has anyone here seen or accidentally purchased some of these fakes?

[raulus]

I haven’t really been looking. For the most part, my purchased all come graded, although there are plenty of reports of fakes getting past the graders. In the rare case where I buy something raw, it’s usually something that is very obscure and unlikely to be faked. But you never know, as apparently the fakes sometimes are made in very obscure pieces.

[CardPadre]

What years/sets are you specifically looking at?

[OlderTheBetter]

The fakes I have are 1968-1973 Topps Baseball. The 1969s are especially well-counterfeited.

When you use a loupe at 10x you just look for the solid printed areas in the card, usually white, yellow, red -- such as team and player names. If you can see print dots it's a fake. Vintage cards were plate-printed as we all know.

I'm not trying to alarm anyone, just curious how many are making their way into the marketplace.

I doubt that many dealers at small shows are going to catch these -- some of them don't even know how to assess the grade of a vintage card and are only knowledgeable about modern cards. When you find a true vintage dealer at most shows you're having a good day.

[jingram058]

I have both loupe and blacklight. But, frankly, if any of my cards are fake, I couldn't care any less. Unlike most people who frequent this forum, I just collect cards. In my circle of collector friends, we're not card brokers. None of us care. If they're fake, they're so well done as to not matter to us.

[refz]

I have a couple pre war counterfeits, (I understand in post war here but figure I’d share) I picked these up 25+ years ago forget where from and had them graded in a huge sgc submission around 2006. I was surprised then but learned this particular set m101-5 is highly forged. Strikes me funny as they both look good to me to this day. Pipp has old pencil on the back. I keep them in my Yankee box as is.

What blows me away is why would anyone want to counterfeit 60s-70s at all?

Danny

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think eventually this will be a worse problem than alteration.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think eventually this will be a worse problem than alteration.

I collect a few things besides baseball cards. Among these are cards from a TCG called Magic: The Gathering. Within that sphere, counterfeits are plentiful. However, it's not a "problem" for collectors with a basic idea of what to look for.

Counterfeiters, at least in this space, don't appear interested in perfection. They seem to instead focus on fakes that will dupe the average collector. Then they let the presses run. Kind of a "high quantity, mediocre quality" model. I'm guessing they make the most money with this approach.

Ultimately, I think the whole counterfeit vs. detection game will play out in much the same way as locks vs. lock-picking has. The counterfeits will refine their techniques, technology will evolve to detect the fakes...wash/rinse/repeat.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

The fakes I have are 1968-1973 Topps Baseball. The 1969s are especially well-counterfeited.

Are they all high-priced stars?

Originally Posted by refz

What blows me away is why would anyone want to counterfeit 60s-70s at all?

Yes, why bother? Counterfeiting a pre-War card is a lot easier since these are cruder and they fetch way more money in the marketplace.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes, why bother? Counterfeiting a pre-War card is a lot easier since these are cruder and they fetch way more money in the marketplace.

Maybe they are practicing....

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes, why bother? Counterfeiting a pre-War card is a lot easier since these are cruder and they fetch way more money in the marketplace.

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Maybe they are practicing....

I would guess risk/reward and intelligence of the counterfeiter. Making high end stuff is stupid for the most part. Say someone makes a high end T206 Red Cobb and it sells for $100K. Chances of that guy having money and being able to make your life horrible is pretty high if you get caught. Now if you make 1000s of $5 to $500 cards and get caught selling one how much problems can someone out very little money cause? At least that is what I have learned from watching PBS.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

The fakes I have are 1968-1973 Topps Baseball. The 1969s are especially well-counterfeited.

I'd love to see an image of a good 1969. Do you have one or are there any on ebay at the moment that you know of?

[OlderTheBetter]

[QUOTEWhat blows me away is why would anyone want to counterfeit 60s-70s at all?

Danny[/QUOTE]

Because many of these hofer cards are well over $200 in decent condition. I have some Mantles that would sell for over $500 if real. Not a bad ROI if bought for $1 and sold at that price.

[Kutcher55]

I got fooled by this one below. Bought it for $15 at a show in December. When I found out it was fake I returned it to the dealer who I believe made an honest mistake and he refunded my my $. I don't think I'll be purchasing any raw pre war any time soon, although ya never know.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

Because many of these hofer cards are well over $200 in decent condition. I have some Mantles that would sell for over $500 if real. Not a bad ROI if bought for $1 and sold at that price.

Scary! I guess we should/could stick to commons to be safe.

[OlderTheBetter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think eventually this will be a worse problem than alteration.

I agree 100%. Printing technology keeps getting better.

[OlderTheBetter]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I'd love to see an image of a good 1969. Do you have one or are there any on ebay at the moment that you know of?

Here are a few of my 1969 fakes.

These were readily available on eBAY for about $2 each until about 2018 when they cracked down on sellers due to many complaints.

These 69s are the right size. The colors are decently done but not perfect. Anyone who collects 1969 is well aware that the pink backs vary quite a bit due to a variety of reasons but I feel these are well done.

So what a clever counterfeiter would do -- age them by soaking, ruffing up the corners a bit, etc. This lends some credibility but at the same time reduces a super-high TPG grade. The graders should catch these quickly if they eyeball the flat full-color areas with a loupe and see any dots, but I think a lot of less 1969-savvy dealers and collectors at smaller shows or shops could be fooled.

I shared some pics but to be honest they're much more convincing when in hand.


Link to view cards:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0...-HA#1969_Topps

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I have both loupe and blacklight. But, frankly, if any of my cards are fake, I couldn't care any less. Unlike most people who frequent this forum, I just collect cards. In my circle of collector friends, we're not card brokers. None of us care. If they're fake, they're so well done as to not matter to us.

I feel the same. I'm a Low Grade collector anyways. I don't invest in cards..

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by refz

I have a couple pre war counterfeits, (I understand in post war here but figure I’d share) I picked these up 25+ years ago forget where from and had them graded in a huge sgc submission around 2006. I was surprised then but learned this particular set m101-5 is highly forged. Strikes me funny as they both look good to me to this day. Pipp has old pencil on the back. I keep them in my Yankee box as is.

What blows me away is why would anyone want to counterfeit 60s-70s at all?

Danny

Danny, Despite the SCG notes, those m101-5s are almost certainly not counterfeit but are instead Fritsch reprints that were sliced off at the bottom where the word reprint would have been seen. It seems beyond stupid (although possible) that one choosing to counterfeit would pick a reprint rather than the real deal as a model to copy.