The Rosen '52 find

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Agree that was the motivation

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

A majority of the boxes had bugs and were either opened or thrown away

& a bunch had moisture stains as well

Many years ago a friend bought a '54 Bowman Football pack on the cheap
& wanted to open it for kicks.

Every card was damaged, but the pack incl Otto Graham
I seemed more impressed then him, so he sold me the opened pack
& a few years later had SGC grade the 3 best cards.

& Yes! I still have 'em

[Jay Wolt]

Here's the Otto

[Rich Klein]

Paris Tennessee to be exact.

Many of the people who opened the packs did get sick for a while after opening them. But it was a kick to open some of those packs back in the day.

Rich

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Yep. Stand by the Hudson River and wait for Sy Berger to come along on his forklift.

A 20th century urban myth circulated by those trying to talk up the price of their cards from the last series of 1952 Topps Baseball. Check out Toppcat's analysis here:

Highly Doubtful - Topps Archives

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Paris Tennessee to be exact.

Many of the people who opened the packs did get sick for a while after opening them.

Did they eat the gum?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

And I shall talk about Diamond Stars.

To me it always seemed the 1934 Diamond Stars green backs, which are card #'s 1 through 24 that have both a 1934 copyright date AND 1933 stats (with the exception of the #7 card of Lew Fonseca, which can be identified as a 1934 release instead of 1935 based upon his age listed in the biographical text - '34 years old' vs. '35 years old').

These 24 1934 cards have always seemed to me to be a little tougher to come by in comparison to the 1935 green back versions of cards 1 to 24.

Only nine cards in the set were issued in all three years (card numbers 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16 and 22). Shown below are the three back versions for card # 4 Buddy Myer:

distarsmyertrio 001 (1024x416).jpg
distarstriobacks 001 (1024x414).jpg

Cards shown on left are 1934 issued, in center 1935 issued, and 1936 on right.


Brian (as it relates to apples to oranges comparisons, tangents are my favorite fruit when it comes to collecting info to share)

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Paris Tennessee to be exact.

Many of the people who opened the packs did get sick for a while after opening them.

Rich

And the Grim Reaper was right there, hovering and waiting, ready to post about their demise.

[judsonhamlin]

It was the salmon mousse.

Originally Posted by BRoberts

And the Grim Reaper was right there, hovering and waiting, ready to post about their demise.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Did they eat the gum?

My own experience in that regard hasn't been very good. Back in 2005 or so I opened a pack of 1960 Topps Funny Valentines A cards which I'd bought for the wrapper:



I then ate the gum. It was crumbly and there was a bit of bitterness to it as well as the sweetness. Overall it wasn't very good.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

My own experience in that regard hasn't been very good. Back in 2005 or so I opened a pack of 1960 Topps Funny Valentines A cards which I'd bought for the wrapper: I then ate the gum. It was crumbly and there was a bit of bitterness to it as well as the sweetness. Overall it wasn't very good.

OMG! Better you than me. You chewed the gum, right, you didn't actually eat it?

[Balticfox]

Yeah I just chewed it. But it was so crumbly that only a tiny amount remained to chew after thirty seconds or so.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yeah I just chewed it. But it was so crumbly that only a tiny amount remained to chew after thirty seconds or so.

A law of physics says that matter can be converted into energy, but it cannot simply be lost. So somehow, in some way, your body must've absorbed that substance which was once gum.

[Balticfox]

I operate under the same premise upon which vaccines are based. Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger!



The above shots were taken after I chewed the gum.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yeah I just chewed it. But it was so crumbly that only a tiny amount remained to chew after thirty seconds or so.

You are braver than I am. I don't even like stale potato chips.

Who can ever forget the gum we got in the packs with all of the powdered sugar on them!
.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I operate under the same premise upon which vaccines are based. Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger!

That works great until it doesn't! Love the shirt!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Leon

Who can ever forget the gum we got in the packs with all of the powdered sugar on them! .

Wasn't bad, never threw it away, but not up to Super Bubble or Bazooka, my favorites.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Leon

Who can ever forget the gum we got in the packs with all of the powdered sugar on them!

I still dream of it! The best gum of them all though was in Parkies/Zip Hockey:

1960-61



1961-62



1962-63



1963-64





The Zip gum in the Parkhurst packs was thicker and in only one section. But it was juicier than that in Topps packs and had a luscious cherry(?) flavour. Any 70+ Canadian boy will confirm that it was the best!

Zip Bubble Gum was evidently also sold in penny twists:



I never saw Zip in my neck of the woods though. London was O-Pee-Chee country and Fleer Dubble Bubble was the only penny gum that offered a challenge to Bazooka's hegemony.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Love the shirt!

It was one of the five Grateful Dead inspired/sanctioned T-shirts that I bought at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. Here are a couple more:





The T-shirts were symbolic of Lithuania rising from the dead of Soviet rule as a country.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

On a trip to Cape Cod in 1990, a small shop in Hyannis had a box of 1978 OPC baseball for $3/pack. I bought a couple and dared to taste the gum. It was completely brittle. If I recall, it wasn't chewable as gum should be, but rather crumbled and maybe even fizzed a bit on the tongue, which prompted immediate expectoration. (Two Eddie Murray RCs, two Roses and a Nolan Ryan, in case you were wondering. Still have them, too.)

[irv]

Don't recall Zip bubble gum at all but, I assume, it was gone by the way side by the time I was old enough to chew it?
Always looked forward to the bubble gum in OPC packs, and boy, did I chew a pile of it.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by irv

Don't recall Zip bubble gum at all but, I assume, it was gone by the way side by the time I was old enough to chew it?

Were you old enough to buy the Monkees card issues or the 1967 Philadelphia Gum Super Hero Stickers? These were produced and distributed in Canada by Grant Products to which Parkhurst had been renamed in November 1963 and contained Zip gum.

(Not mine.)

Moreover as late as 1972 the Canadian wrapper of the Horrible Horoscopes cards featured a Zip Bubble Gum side ad:

(Not mine.)

Zip Bubble Gum must therefore have been sold somewhere into the 1970's though I don't remember ever seeing it.

Here's Bobby Burrell's excellent account of the history of Parkhurst:

Parkhurst Products; Bobby Burrell - Hobby News Daily

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

I respect your humble decision Leon, but you did amass one of the greatest type collections ever, certainly worthy of a "Leon Luckey" label.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

It probably would have devalued the cards.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Were you old enough to buy the Monkees card issues or the 1967 Philadelphia Gum Super Hero Stickers? These were produced and distributed in Canada by Grant Products to which Parkhurst had been renamed in November 1963 and contained Zip gum.

Moreover as late as 1972 the Canadian wrapper of the Horrible Horoscopes cards featured a Zip Bubble Gum side ad:

I was only 3 in 67 so no, I wasn't old enough. I remember the Monkees cards, and I believe I had a few, but that's about all I can remember of those. Might have just accumulated them too rather than having purchased them?

[Ben Yourg]

---------Delete----

[tjisonline]

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets in addition to the 1986 52 find. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

IIRC, There are period photos which show the packs the cards came from. Not sheets but "cello" type packs.

Rich

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don’t buy the Berger’s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc… going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today’s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

I'm with you there. I'm not buying the river dump story either

[Balticfox]

Neither does Toppcat.

[Exhibitman]

My $0.02 on Rosen:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...utm_medium=web

[GasHouseGang]

That was a great summary and analysis of Rosen and his business. I saw him in operation a few times, and he just seemed like a big showman. But I guess it worked for him, and he was so well known that he did bring some nice cards into the hobby that may have never been discovered otherwise.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My $0.02 on Rosen:

Nicely done, Adam. I knew several of his assistants, and I could never figure how they could stand being around the guy. They would just roll their eyes and tell me that he would throw them some smaller deals during the course of a show, which made it worthwhile for them, I suppose.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I enjoyed your account, Adam. Very well written.

I worked several shows where Rosen was set up. We never interacted even when passing each other. All I remember is a lot of noise when he was "on", and when he was "off", he seemed to tune out anyone and anything.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My $0.02 on Rosen:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...utm_medium=web

Adam, wonderful write up! Reminded me of the many times I saw Rosen perform at card shows back in the 1990's

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm with you there. I'm not buying the river dump story either

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Its the biggest fishing story I have ever heard. All the more they pump up the 52s highs.

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The pop counts/scarcity is what makes the high numbers valuable though, not stories about why the pop counts are lower. The market doesn't care about why, it only cares about how many.

But you're arguing that perception of reality isn't a crucial determinant of pricing. But it is. Prices move and move dramatically in response to changes in perception.

[GrayGhost]

Alan used to buy quite a lot from a local legend collector and dealer I was friends with. Always treated him well
One time I was setup at the old Cranston RI show when it was in Warwick.

I had an older 50s personalized Mantle ball I had picked up at a paper show. . I was confident but as a customer was looking, he walked by and randomly blurted out " nice old Mick".Helped me sell the ball for 100.00. . I only paid 50 at least