Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

With the technology available today, I still don't understand why so many surveillance photos are still so grainy.

Those "photos" are pictures of a screen and zoomed in. I guarantee the original footage is a lot better than what's posted here.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Those "photos" are pictures of a screen and zoomed in. I guarantee the original footage is a lot better than what's posted here.

OK, then why haven't they been posted everywhere?

[shoreball51]

I have not yet seen any comments about how to ID the thieves, so consider that the blue shirt and definitely the cammo hat guys are probably “gym rats”. You would think there is extensive footwork by the authorities going to gyms.

[JohnP0621]

I keep watching this thread hoping to read that these Thieves are caught and
prosecuted and the cards returned. I had one transaction with Asai at the Philly show a few Months Ago and he was very accommodating.
I hope it all ends well for him.

John P

[Exhibitman]

On the insurance issue, I'e been on both sides of the table (representing insurers and representing insureds).

The alpha and omega is what the policy says. If there is a specific condition required, it better be in there in black and white or the ambiguity goes against the insurer. For example, I represented the insured on a first-party burglary claim where there insurer denied the claim because the policy required a working burglar alarm at the property. Well, it had one but it wasn't turned on at the time. The insurer (mis)interpreted the policy to require that the alarm be armed at the time of the burglary. If the policy in this case does not require a specific security measure at the time of the theft, it is not a part of the insurance contract, period.

Now, on the flip side, if the loss is big and the circumstances are 'dumbass' or worse in terms of the insured's conduct, the insurer may call in its own attorneys to conduct an "examination under oath" (EUO) of the insured and any other related parties, like employees. The EUO functions like a deposition and the insured may be required to cough up documentation related to the costs of the stolen items as well as the insured's own financial condition. Failure to cooperate may be cause to reject the claim. The insurer will look especially hard at the finances of the insured to see whether there is a financial motive for a fraud case. Actually voiding a policy for fraud is rare but knocking down a claim for lack of proof is not.

Assuming that there is no evidence of fraud and no solid basis to refuse the claim for non-compliance with policy terms, the real action revolves around valuation of the loss. Most of what was stolen is readily valued since it is slabbed mainstream stuff, but there may be some battles on the periphery over whether a card is deserving of a premium for some reason (eye appeal etc.).

Hope this answers some questions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is it an implied condition of any policy that the insured not act negligently? Or only if the policy says so expressly?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is it an implied condition of any policy that the insured not act negligently? Or only if the policy says so expressly?

That's how attorneys make money, if the insured walked away and left 2 million unattended would seem a valid argument against paying.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's how attorneys make money, if the insured walked away and left 2 million unattended would seem a valid argument against paying.

If?

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is it an implied condition of any policy that the insured not act negligently? Or only if the policy says so expressly?

Gross negligence maybe. Ordinary negligence, I would say no.

[Yoda]

The policy would pay as it covers theft under an all risk manuscript policy, which Ash surely has. And, of course, the insurer cannot subrogate for failing to mind his case. You cannot subrogate against your own policy holder.
Also, I ponder why the perps seemingly oblivious to the show's cameras, knowing they were being recorded, their disguises, like the goatee and tattoos, maybe.
I really thought there would be a quick arrest. This heist was carefully planned.

[sb1]

I am of the opinion these folks know that their fingerprints and photo images are not in any US database or anywhere else for that matter, thus no concern for handling objects without gloves or trying to hide their faces.

[Yoda]

In short, they and the cards might be in Bulgaria right now as I type this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

In short, they and the cards might be in Bulgaria right now as I type this.

Mexico was my thought as I posted, it was sort of a hypothetical at the time but maybe it's what actually happened?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

In short, they and the cards might be in Bulgaria right now as I type this.

Who collects baseball cards in Bulgaria?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Who collects baseball cards in Bulgaria?

Rich people

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

OK, then why haven't they been posted everywhere?

That I can't answer.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Who collects baseball cards in Bulgaria?

Bulgarians?

[Directly]

A Wake up call--Were all vulnerable -- A dealer friend deals in coins--he recently attended a coin show in St Louis. He was only there to buy and purchased $51,000 in gold coins. Some criminals saw him purchasing. He left and stopped at a restaurant on his way home. The criminals followed him and broke into his car while he was dining. They even put a spike under his car tire if he had took his briefcase with him. They punched out the door lock, and got the briefcase. He might have lost his life had they rob him down the road.

[jingram058]

Would have thought the announcement of perps arrested, cards recovered would have happened by now. Of course, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Directly

A Wake up call--Were all vulnerable -- A dealer friend deals in coins--he recently attended a coin show in St Louis. He was only there to buy and purchased $51,000 in gold coins. Some criminals saw him purchasing. He left and stopped at a restaurant on his way home. The criminals followed him and broke into his car while he was dining. They even put a spike under his car tire if he had took his briefcase with him. They punched out the door lock, and got the briefcase. He might have lost his life had they rob him down the road.

I wouldn't be buying gold out in public like that in the first place.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman
Who collects baseball cards in Bulgaria?


Originally Posted by D. Bergin
Bulgarians?

Tobacco smoking Germans have long been associated with Bulgarian cards picturing baseball and boxing stars. And Bulgaria was an ally of Nazi Germany during WW2, so in a sense Bulgarians in the past have sympathized with baseball card collectors from another country.

The thieves are thus almost assuredly Bulgarian.


Brian

[ALBB]

OK then, there you have it !

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The thieves are thus almost assuredly Bulgarian.


Brian

Of this I have no doubt. Likely a Bulgarian cartel driving a fleet of souped up Yugo's, racing to cross the International Date Line into Siam.

Siam has a well known voracious appetite and lucrative black market for Mickey Mantle cards, and Mickey Mouse plushies.

[vansaad]

Here's an AI sketch artist of the Bulgarian buyer. BOLO

BULGARIAN CARD COLLECTOR.jpg

[packs]

Seems like it would be pretty hard to sell cards from Mexico. I think you'd have to put that much more faith in the postal service of two countries to get a deal done.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by vansaad

Here's an AI sketch artist of the Bulgarian buyer. BOLO

Attachment 628498

Roll up that guys sleeves. I'll bet he has tattoos.

[JollyElm]

The CIA is reporting that there has been a sudden, notable spike in collectibles listings on the Craigslist Sofia site, so you may be on to something. Then again, the Cyrillic word for "Mantle" is nearly identical to the term for "milk producing goat," so it may simply be a translation issue.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by packs

Seems like it would be pretty hard to sell cards from Mexico. I think you'd have to put that much more faith in the postal service of two countries to get a deal done.

I'm actually dealing with a seller right now from Mexico who wants 5,000 pesos to ship a '52 Mantle.

I told him "adios".

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I'm actually dealing with a seller right now from Mexico who wants 5,000 pesos to ship a '52 Mantle.

I told him "adios".

That's a red flag right there. No way are they going to ship a '52 Mantle from Bulgaria, to Mexico, and then to you.

Unless you live in Bulgaria.

Do you live in Bulgaria?

If so, you should jump on it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Seems like it would be pretty hard to sell cards from Mexico. I think you'd have to put that much more faith in the postal service of two countries to get a deal done.

How hard was it for Copperfield? Not very apparently. He had mules move them into the US and had a variety of outlets here. If this is a criminal ring, they're not worried about the vagaries of the Mexican mail.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by packs

Seems like it would be pretty hard to sell cards from Mexico. I think you'd have to put that much more faith in the postal service of two countries to get a deal done.

I barely trust the USPS, let alone the Mexican postal service that is probably even more inclined to have lost packages.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The CIA is reporting that there has been a sudden, notable spike in collectibles listings on the Craigslist Sofia site, so you may be on to something. Then again, the Cyrillic word for "Mantle" is nearly identical to the term for "milk producing goat," so it may simply be a translation issue.

And Ash once had a milk producing goat, so there is the connection. The FBI should be notified and bring in the CIA to handle the Bulgarians, who, I understand, are a tough lot and love their cards.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Enough with the stupid jokes clogging up an important thread. That stuff has its place, which is most everywhere else, but it's getting in the way here. Don't you think this is a good time and place to try to keep the conversation constructive?

[Kutcher55]

As each day passes without news it’s not a good sign. Perhaps these guys had subtle disguises. My guess is they headed south of the border based on the fact that at least two were identified as Hispanic. The investigators surely know things they aren’t sharing with the general public but by now it has to be clear that these thieves may have been more clever and well planned than most people thought. Furthermore I doubt these cards resurface any time soon. But I suppose time could prove me all wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time that happened. Given the fact that nobody in the card community could ID these guys it would suggest they are outsiders. The cards and their scheduled locations were all over FB groups and I don’t know how many people knew about them via these groups but it had to be upwards of 100,000.

[jayshum]

I'm not sure why so many people expected arrests to happen so quickly in this case. It took about a month for an arrest in the Memory Lane theft, and there was probably a better starting point for the police in that case because they could at least get a list of employees of the hotel where they were stolen from that would have potentially had access to them.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I'm not sure why so many people expected arrests to happen so quickly in this case. It took about a month for an arrest in the Memory Lane theft, and there was probably a better starting point for the police in that case because they could at least get a list of employees of the hotel where they were stolen from that would have potentially had access to them.

It's given people the false hope "it's just that easy". I'd wager 99% of stuff stolen is never found. The police, fbi, Cia, nsa, whomever have a starting point, but there are 8 billion people in the world.

Maybe one of them idiotically used their debit/credit card somewhere near/in the venue on camera? That's about it, and I'd like my 70k if that turns out to be how they find them. See timestamp

[Snapolit1]

I suspect 98% of criminal investigations take longer than Joe Q. Public expects.

[packs]

Didn't the Memory Lane thief get busted because they tried to sell some of the cards to a local card shop? Pretty much the worst move a person can make.

[Kco]

Originally Posted by packs

Didn't the Memory Lane thief get busted because they tried to sell some of the cards to a local card shop? Pretty much the worst move a person can make.

He got arrested cause he was one of only a couple people could've had access to the box and promptly resigned the next day (prior to the theft being discovered). Good way to make it easy

[packs]

This is what I read from this article:

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...spect-arrested

"Sports Collectors Daily reported that Strongsville police raided a local home Thursday morning and found 52 of 54 cards. According to police, Paxton allegedly attempted to sell some of the cards to a local card shop."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I suspect 98% of criminal investigations take longer than Joe Q. Public expects.

Changed your mind?
"I’d be really stunned if these jerks aren’t locked up by Friday."

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Changed your mind?
"I’d be really stunned if these jerks aren’t locked up by Friday."

89.97 % of statistics are made up...on the spot

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Enough with the stupid jokes clogging up an important thread. That stuff has its place, which is most everywhere else, but it's getting in the way here. Don't you think this is a good time and place to try to keep the conversation constructive?

You are right.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Changed your mind?
"I’d be really stunned if these jerks aren’t locked up by Friday."

I guess I am one of those people.

I continue to flattered, maybe a little perplexed, by your efforts to monitor my posts. Five years later you were still throwing in my face a single comment I made by PWCC. A little odd.

[refz]

I kind of agree with Ted (hopefully I’m wrong) but you may see these cards start popping up a decade from now under a new “guise” if there’s close ups of the cards I’d start examining them. Forget the holders & serial numbers they are useless at this point unless they are recovered.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I guess I am one of those people.

I continue to flattered, maybe a little perplexed, by your efforts to monitor my posts. Five years later you were still throwing in my face a single comment I made by PWCC. A little odd.

LOL, I just happened to remember your supreme confidence at the start of the thread and pointed it out, I would hardly call that trolling you Steve. Trust me I don't so don't be flattered.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

89.97 % of statistics are made up...on the spot

I kind of agree but I'm thinking it's more like about 96.32%

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Enough with the stupid jokes clogging up an important thread.

Wi nøt trei a høliday in Bulgaria this yer?

See the løveli lakes

Attend the wonderful baseball card conventions

And pet mani interesting furry animals including the majestic møøse

A Møøse once bit my sister ...

No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse
with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given
her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and
star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst
Nordfink".

Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...



The More You Say I Can't Say Something, the More Urgent It Is for Me to Say It--Dave Chappelle

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Enough with the stupid jokes clogging up an important thread. That stuff has its place, which is most everywhere else, but it's getting in the way here. Don't you think this is a good time and place to try to keep the conversation constructive?

No.

[CJinPA]

LOL - come back a week later and little's changed.... many of you are living up to my perception. /smh