why do sellers change asking price to sold after a sale?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

I’m a dude who collects cardboard pictures for fun, I don’t care about the efficiency of a profit market whatsoever.

I am sure we are all wells ware there’s a lot more $75 items sold than $1000 ones or whatever line you would like to draw. The majority of the more expensive cards are commodity cards that are easily priced.

I’m losing the logic here. You believe any sale price of any item in any industry must be disclosed publicly and documented for the public? One can think whatever they want but I sure don’t have time to do that. Do I need to make a publicly available database for my lunch receipts? Do you need to know what I paid for my furniture at a garage sale?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I just checked the PSA website for Anson in a 3, just as an example. There was a sale in 2010 and one in 2017. That's it. So I might well look here as well just in case there was something more recent.

A fair number of cards with not much pricing data are offered on the B/S/T/ Not suggesting it's a majority or even close.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I just checked the PSA website for Anson in a 3, just as an example. There was a sale in 2010 and one in 2017. That's it. So I might well look here as well just in case there was something more recent.

Which BST post have you tried to go back to to value a card you could not find relevant prices for in one of the databases designed for such purpose, and then been stymied because the seller didn’t have a price, which may or may not be what it actually sold or traded for? Did you message that member to ask afterwards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Which BST post have you tried to go back to to value a card you could not find relevant prices for in one of the databases designed for such purpose, and then been stymied because the seller didn’t have a price, which may or may not be what it actually sold or traded for? Did you message that member to ask afterwards?

I'm not playing this game any more on your turf where you have reframed the question. I think people should leave the information rather than facilitate their buyer trying to overcharge someone else, and to me that answer does not put the burden of proof on me to conclusively show the utility of the information in every case. I say the burden is on you to justify the affirmative deletion of information that was made public. You disagree and that's fine.

[RCMcKenzie]

On an Anson, it's more instructive to see a non-sale sitting around at say $10k.

Even if you see that one sold on here last week for 3K, that does not mean the next one trades for 3K. It means you missed your chance to buy one. 1956 Topps Mantles trade like a commodity. The Anson trades like used euro furniture in a yard sale.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

On an Anson, it's more instructive to see a non-sale sitting around at say $10k.

Even if you see that one sold on here last week for 3K, that does not mean the next one trades for 3K. It means you missed your chance to buy one. 1956 Topps Mantles trade like a commodity. The Anson trades like used euro furniture in a yard sale.

It would still be one more data point in a world of few data points.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I can appreciate that but I also like to rely on my own efforts and not have to trouble other people. In your example, if the seller of the postcard did not put an asking price in the post I would agree it is nobody's business. If he did then what harm is it in leaving it there?

And I pose the same question to you as I did to Greg: Should auction sites now refuse to share sales data with us and cease submitting data to VCP? Imagine going to eBay and searching sales and starting price was gone as was sold price? I think most in the hobby would be up in arms.

There's no harm in leaving it there, but if it's one thing I've learned from old school collectors here is that you have to show passion and effort to get information. It's what sets us apart from a lot of the collecting world, that and a big dollop of honesty and integrity. It's why I love this community so much.
Auction houses, eBay, and VCP are in the business of gathering sales info, you can gather information here but not in the same way so it's not a valid comparison imho.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How is it showing honesty and integrity to request your seller to delete pricing information so you can try to get a much higher price? I am just missing that in all this discussion.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How is it showing honesty and integrity to request your seller to delete pricing information so you can try to get a much higher price? I am just missing that in all this discussion.

Is that a question directed towards me?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Is that a question directed towards me?

To anyone who wants to answer it, but you talked about the honesty and integrity here, and I largely agree, but don't see the practice we are discussing as a good example of it.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would still be one more data point in a world of few data points.

I agree, but I view sales that I'm not involved in as none of my business. I don't have a strong opinion on this topic either way. If there's a bargain to be had on here, I'm always too late. I have paid up on here for rare stuff I wanted, and can't remember looking back with regret.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To anyone who wants to answer it, but you talked about the honesty and integrity here, and I largely agree, but don't see the practice we are discussing as a good example of it.

Yes, I should have been more clear and attached that to my what I love about this community sentence immaterial of the current discussion.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’m a dude who collects cardboard pictures for fun, I don’t care about the efficiency of a profit market whatsoever.

I am sure we are all wells ware there’s a lot more $75 items sold than $1000 ones or whatever line you would like to draw. The majority of the more expensive cards are commodity cards that are easily priced.

I’m losing the logic here. You believe any sale price of any item in any industry must be disclosed publicly and documented for the public? One can think whatever they want but I sure don’t have time to do that. Do I need to make a publicly available database for my lunch receipts? Do you need to know what I paid for my furniture at a garage sale?

You are a moving target, as usual.

I never even suggested the pricing data on BST was necessary because it is not available anywhere else. My point, which you apparently disagree with completely is that sales data of some sort should be made available because without it, buyers and sellers would be lost and the more the merrier. If it were not wanted and warranted it would not be seen in almost every venue in this industry.

And to your increasingly ridiculous points, let's take the lunch receipts example. How would it work out for you if the places you walked into for lunch pulled down their prices after each person bought an item and you had to ask an employee how much is the BLT? So yes I actually would love to see a database of those lunch receipts in that scenario.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Auction houses, eBay, and VCP are in the business of gathering sales info, you can gather information here but not in the same way so it's not a valid comparison imho.

Auction houses and ebay are not in the business of gathering sales info they are in the business of making items available for sale. VCP is in business to gather sales data...I agree.

My point is that AH and ebay do not have to make those sales data available to us. They do and we use it. Or maybe you don't? So if nobody ever showed an opening bid, or asking price or final sales price wouldn't the hobby be much different?

I rely heavily on sales data.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Auction houses and ebay are not in the business of gathering sales info they are in the business of making items available for sale. VCP is in business to gather sales data...I agree.

My point is that AH and ebay do not have to make those sales data available to us. They do and we use it. Or maybe you don't? So if nobody ever showed an opening bid, or asking price or final sales price wouldn't the hobby be much different?

I rely heavily on sales data.

Fair points, I see it differently but if you ever want to know what I sold a card for just PM me and I'll tell you.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Fair points, I see it differently but if you ever want to know what I sold a card for just PM me and I'll tell you.

Appreciate that Phil! Thank you.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You are a moving target, as usual.

I never even suggested the pricing data on BST was necessary because it is not available anywhere else. My point, which you apparently disagree with completely is that sales data of some sort should be made available because without it, buyers and sellers would be lost and the more the merrier. If it were not wanted and warranted it would not be seen in almost every venue in this industry.

And to your increasingly ridiculous points, let's take the lunch receipts example. How would it work out for you if the places you walked into for lunch pulled down their prices after each person bought an item and you had to ask an employee how much is the BLT? So yes I actually would love to see a database of those lunch receipts in that scenario.

I have no interest in trading insults with you still.

If the pricing data is readily available in the databases with infinitely larger sample sizes than this unorganized BST forum, what is the point in using this unorganized BST for pricing instead? That just doesn’t make any sense to me. It would seem to be a logical prerequisite that the data isn’t available in better organized formats for it to be any useful here. I am not against pricing data, I don’t think anyone is required to give me or an organization their data and I don’t really care. I don’t and never have used VCP. I manage to price most cards fairly easily by following and participating in the hobby in real time for the sets I am collecting, but maybe that’s a struggle for other areas of the hobby. Must be kind of a mess searching key terms in the forum to pull BST threads and check them to price instead of using the easy methods.


I don’t understand how furniture and lunch are ridiculous but transactions in “a commerce related industry”, should or need to be disclosed publicly. Is that not commercial industry? If you are limiting to cards, stocks and real estate why are we using “in a commerce related industry”? Do I need to confess every private card transaction I’ve had to not be “ridiculous” or a “super douche”? Do I need to share this list of private deals on Net54, or other places too? I guess I just don’t care about other peoples private business as much as others do.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have no interest in trading insults with you still.

Huh? Comments such as these only take away from the core points you are trying to make. So by not agreeing with you I am now insulting you? That is very interesting.

Originally Posted by G1911

If the pricing data is readily available in the databases with infinitely larger sample sizes than this unorganized BST forum, what is the point in using this unorganized BST for pricing instead? That just doesnÂ’t make any sense to me. It would seem to be a logical prerequisite that the data isnÂ’t available in better organized formats for it to be any useful here. I am not against pricing data, I donÂ’t think anyone is required to give me or an organization their data and I donÂ’t really care. I donÂ’t and never have used VCP. I manage to price most cards fairly easily by following and participating in the hobby in real time for the sets I am collecting, but maybe thatÂ’s a struggle for other areas of the hobby. Must be kind of a mess searching key terms in the forum to pull BST threads and check them to price instead of using the easy methods.

You keep putting words in my mouth with each post. I never implied anyone is mandated to share info. I simply support the sharing of the data and feel it is critical information in any field of collectibles. I merely stated that if the asking price is there for all to see then just leave it not that the person who offered the item is required to leave it. It hurts nobody to leave it since it was volunteered initially. Why remove it?

I can assure you that you would be in the minority of people who do not need a site like VCP or accessing historical pricing data.

And I use many sites when I search values of certain things and yes I have done google searches and been lead to BST posts on many occasions. My collecting habits are always changing and I get interested in issues that years earlier I had no interest in. Again...the more pricing data I have access to the more it helps me.

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t understand how furniture and lunch are ridiculous but transactions in “a commerce related industry”, should or need to be disclosed publicly. Is that not commercial industry? If you are limiting to cards, stocks and real estate why are we using “in a commerce related industry”? Do I need to confess every private card transaction I’ve had to not be “ridiculous” or a “super douche”? Do I need to share this list of private deals on Net54, or other places too? I guess I just don’t care about other peoples private business as much as others do.

Last I checked the price of sandwiches or furniture did not vary over time like a card's price. Stocks and real estate are quite similar to cards. These are all industries that rely on comp sales. Please tell me the last time you wanted or needed to price a sandwich or piece of furniture based on a comp.

Deals posted on the BST are not private. I used " rather extreme verbiage" to describe a behavior or choice. As far as if you are "ridiculous" or "a super douche" I will let you decide that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Huh? Comments such as these only take away from the core points you are trying to make. So by not agreeing with you I am now insulting you? That is very interesting.

No. Here:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You are a moving target, as usual.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

As far as if you are "ridiculous" or "a super douche" I will let you decide that.

I am just not going to participate in this insult game. You are welcome to dump on me as much as you would like. I am sure you can get much support. I just don't get the emotional and personal anger expressed repeatedly over this issue. This is the tiniest of topics.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You keep putting words in my mouth with each post. I never implied anyone is mandated to share info.

You called everyone who doesn't a 'super douche'. Nobody said you advocated a law mandating it. That you think people should and need to do it is very clear in the transcript.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I simply support the sharing of the data and feel it is critical information in any field of collectibles. I merely stated that if the asking price is there for all to see then just leave it not that the person who offered the item is required to leave it. It hurts nobody to leave it since it was volunteered initially. Why remove it?

My personal reasons were given early before the train wreck. Though I never put much thought into it, it didn't seem like a big deal.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I can assure you that you would be in the minority of people who do not need a site like VCP or accessing historical pricing data.

I doubt 51%+ of hobbyists have a subscription to them or a competitor. I know the sets I am collecting, I don't think that's special or notable at all. If it works for others that is awesome. I have nothing against it at all.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And I use many sites when I search values of certain things and yes I have done google searches and been lead to BST posts on many occasions. My collecting habits are always changing and I get interested in issues that years earlier I had no interest in. Again...the more pricing data I have access to the more it helps me.

No argument here. I share information and research publicly and frequently, I have nothing against people sharing information. I don't need to know the details of peoples deals and don't think they owe me anything whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Last I checked the price of sandwiches or furniture did not vary over time like a card's price.

Boy do I wish that was true! After just redoing a new home, ouch they've changed a lot. 'Commerce related industry'.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Stocks and real estate are quite similar to cards. These are all industries that rely on comp sales. Please tell me the last time you wanted or needed to price a sandwich or piece of furniture based on a comp.

Again, I collect cardboard pictures for fun for some reason; I am not an investor. Cards are a fun hobby.

I don't eat sandwiches, but if I go for a bite to eat and see the sellers pricing is out of wack with the market, I go elsewhere. I am aware of what most things relevant to my life generally cost and the appropriate range just by living in the world. I suspect most people do. Same as cards I collect. Same with furniture. Same with everything I buy, really. Perhaps I am an extra cheapskate. I don't have so much money that it makes any sense to not care about the price and not price shop.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Deals posted on the BST are not private.

The final deal usually is private. If it wasn't this wouldn't be a topic to even discuss and you'd have the records. The final price and buyer (or if it even sold) is usually or sometimes (for if it sold) a mystery unless someone chooses to make it public.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I used " rather extreme verbiage" to describe a behavior or choice.

Yes.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Leon

No nefarious intent behind the rule against commenting in the BST areas. It's common courtesy. Comments can totally screw up a sale. However, benign or positive comments are welcomed. It's a "Net54" thing, I guess.

And btw, it is a written rule and has been one for at least 10 yrs, if not more. No one reads the rules under the RULES icon though.... smh

.

to clarify my original comment.... I was not necessarily referring to B/S/T here, but rather the general 'unwritten' rule not to comment on a sale. this happens all the time on FB where sellers police and complain in the comments section.

A seller should have no issue defending their price publicly from trolls or general comments. They do not want to because profit is made primarily by selling to uninformed buyers. two regular examples I see are:

1) old slabs with cards clearly overgraded in today's market listed at prevailing market. of course, a seller does not want sunlight to shine in on this as it might lead a prospect to investigate grading.

2) raw cards with back paper loss listed as "EX". why is it problematic for someone to say "any paper loss by definition cant be EX"?

I overpaid for cards for both of these reasons in the past, simply because I was a noob. I don't understand why it is an issue to call people out for BS.

Anytime I have had comments on a sale, I basically responded with "my card is $50 because of X/Y/X." I don't see the big deal.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I think "super douchy" is a bit strong here. Seller can do whatever he wants.

Yes - I think "Semi Douchy" would be more than sufficient

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Because they can (for whatever reasons they choose).

I just read through 3 pages of this post and am amazed how much members get spun up about this topic. I echo my above statement on page 1. Members can do it because they can, bottom line.

[trambo]

I post sold in place of the price when I sell something here (which isn't too frequently but it does happen) for a few reasons. The most important one is to let people know the card was sold. If I left the price and then said sold, I'm sure I'd get a PM or two asking me about the price of the card and not bother to read that it was sold. Another reason is it really isn't anyone's business but the seller and me what the transaction entailed from a price perspective. I get people want info but I'm selling doubles so how I price something may or may not reflect the market and I'm sorry to say it isn't my responsibility to let everyone on the thread know how much I sold something for. I do know that chaps people but in that instance, it's just not their business to know what a private transaction entailed. We have VCP, 130point and other sites to help with values so look through those.

And lastly, I do it because I can....haha!

Don't mean to offend w/my why for those of you that don't agree w/me. Just saying how I feel about it.

[Flintboy]

I think the bigger question is what some people are asking for what they’re selling on the BST. I get it, you can ask whatever you want, it’s your card. But try to be within reason on pricing. Some sellers are running a museum….every other day with the bump bump bump. Same sellers too. End of rant!