T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

The more we've learned, the more I think your hypothesis is the case. It fits with all our evidence, it explains a lot of the seeming gaps and problems, and most importantly it appears to have been the case for other smaller sets that were part of the ATC T card promotion and moved from Brett to elsewhere at least once.

Brett doesn't seem to have done the entire printing of all the sets in Fullgraff's notebook, it looks like they probably shared contracts (T225 Hyland at Brett at least in part, T218 somewhere other than Brett), Brett appears to be a shadow subsidiary of American Lithographic. I'm still trying to find the incontrovertible proof that Brett was indeed a subsidiary or independent, but it appears these partner firms were intentionally obfuscated to avoid anti-trust problems. The correspondence, employments histories, and bizarre collaboration on very small projects between the firms doesn't make sense if they were independent though. Also still hunting for any record that Fullgraff was the PM for the T206's, or if someone else was. I'm unclear if he was the program manager for all the cards, or only some of them that were centered at the Brett subsidiary.

The Plank could be something as boring as only being on one of the facilities sheets for no real reason in particular. His appearance in 2 series makes little sense with most of the more exciting theories for his SP'ing. I feel like the last couple of years we've got to a place where we know what it is we are looking for more precisely, dealing with "known unknowns" more than the "unknown unknowns" of previous.

Yes, I'm not suggesting that this is definitely what happened but it could be as simple as one of the smaller printing facility's printing a smaller portion of the Sweet caporal backs and one of their sheet layouts had Plank on it. That would answer the often asked question of why was Plank pulled and then re-inserted in the production. If that's what happened it wouldn't have been that he was pulled he would have continued to Sweet Caporal 350 backs when that facility started printing the backs for them.

Sometimes people forget that t206's were a premium and not the main product I can't see them saying stop the presses we spelled the name wrong or that player doesn't play for that team anymore. That's why there are way more T206's that are incorrect than there are corrected examples.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

....
....... Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ... American Beauty__The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___PIEDMONT ........ COUPON .....….... UZIT

1985....Four of us trading cards in in my room at the George Washington Motor Lodge in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, prior to the 5 PM (Friday) start of the BB card Show.

Enter......Rob Lifson and Bill Mastro with the "sharpest" T206 Wagner ever seen. Furthermore, having a PIEDMONT 150 back. They were shopping it around, asking $25K
for it. The 4 of us examined it closely, then told Rob and Bill that we decided to pass on it. All four of us agreed it was trimmed. Needless to say, this Wagner card was the
talk of the Show that weekend. And the rest is history.
This collection with the Wagner card was originally on an uncut sheet which included an Eddie Plank card. We did not see the Plank card. Years later we found out the Plank
card was privately sold to Charlie Conlin. (on display here).


-----


Note the intensity of the BLUE background of the 150 Series Eddie Plank cards......whether they are a PIEDMONT or a SWEET CAPORAL.





Having said all this..... it is my opinion that the initial Series of these T206's were definitely printed at the American Lithographic Co. (in downtown NYC).

And, that the probable explanation for the SWEET CAPORAL 350 cards of Plank.....all (or most) of which have a pale blue background).....may have been
printed elsewhere. I consider these SWEET CAP 350 Plank's to be some kind of an anomaly. The initial Plank cards are indeed 150-only Series subjects.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT


This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].
Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season

Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ?

Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb

Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose

Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards

Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated)

Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects

Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1263 >> 1281.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

Posts #1283 >> 1294.....TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved ?

Posts #1295 >> 1300.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Posts #1301 >> 1302.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Post #1303....................INDEX

Posts #1305 >> 1310.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Posts #1311 >> 1314.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1316 >> 1318.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1328 >> 1332.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1335 >> 1341.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1342 >> 1350.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do

Posts #1351 >> 1373.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do

Posts #1374 >> 1376.....Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's

Posts #1377 >> 1398.....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try

Posts #1399 >> 1400.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?

Posts #1401 >> 1402.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?

Post #1403....................INDEX

Posts #1404 >> 1409.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?

Posts #1412 >> 1434.....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s)

Posts #1435 >> 1450.....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank

Posts #1451 >> 1459.....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank

Posts #1460 >> 1472.....Stamps, BB cards, old Cars, which of them did you collect 1st ?

Posts #1476 >> 1500.....Re-visiting PIEDMONT 460 Fac. #42 cards....are there any more than 72 of them ?

Posts #1501 >> 1537.....Re-visiting PIEDMONT 460 Fac. #42 cards....are there any more than 72 of them ?

Posts #1538 >> 1550.....TRIVIA.....the NAME's the SAME..a T206 guy's name "coincides" with 1950's TOPPS guy

Posts #1551 >> 1556.....TRIVIA.....the NAME's the SAME..a T206 guy's name "coincides" with 1950's TOPPS guy


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your question.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

....
....... Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ... American Beauty__The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___PIEDMONT ........ COUPON .....….... UZIT

1985....Four of us trading cards in in my room at the George Washington Motor Lodge in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, prior to the 5 PM (Friday) start of the BB card Show.

Enter......Rob Lifson and Bill Mastro with the "sharpest" T206 Wagner ever seen. Furthermore, having a PIEDMONT 150 back. They were shopping it around, asking $25K
for it. The 4 of us examined it closely, then told Rob and Bill that we decided to pass on it. All four of us agreed it was trimmed. Needless to say, this Wagner card was the
talk of the Show that weekend. And the rest is history.
This collection with the Wagner card was originally on an uncut sheet which included an Eddie Plank card. We did not see the Plank card. Years later we found out the Plank
card was privately sold to Charlie Conlin. (on display here).


-----


Note the intensity of the BLUE background of the 150 Series Eddie Plank cards......whether they are a PIEDMONT or a SWEET CAPORAL.





Having said all this..... it is my opinion that the initial Series of these T206's were definitely printed at the American Lithographic Co. (in downtown NYC).

And, that the probable explanation for the SWEET CAPORAL 350 cards of Plank.....all (or most) of which have a pale blue background).....may have been
printed elsewhere. I consider these SWEET CAP 350 Plank's to be some kind of an anomaly. The initial Plank cards are indeed 150-only Series subjects.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

This bold parts aren't true the difference in the two series is the clarity not the blue background. There are differences in the blue background but it's found in both series.

The 150 series is the middle card in this image, the other two are 350's.
0 plank 1.jpg

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT


Connie Mack's BB career spanned 65 major-league seasons as a Player, Manager, team Executive, and Owner.

.

In the early 1900's Connie Mack enthusiastically recruited directly from College. Connie Mack's A's roster included the following College educated ballplayers.
Connie Mack believed BB players received better training on the College teams rather than the ML Farm system.

Player..........................................A's tenure
Eddie Collins (Columbia).................. 1906-14, 1927-30
Jack Coombs (Colby College)............ 1906-14
Jack Barry (Holy Cross)................... 1908-14
Andy Coakley (Holy Cross)............... 1902-06
Doc Powers (Notre Dame)................ 1901-1909
Louis Castro (Manhattan College)...... 1902
Simon Nicholls (Univ of Maryland)..... 1906-09

Eddie Plank (Gettysburg College)...... 1901-14
Plank never attended Gettysburg College, but played on their team. Frank Foreman was the coach of the Gettysburg College team, who trained Plank.
Foreman contacted Connie Mack regarding Plank's very effective southpaw pitching style. Eddie went from Gettysburg directly to the A's in 1901.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[jingram058]

This is a very interesting thread, going all the way back. Lots of baseball history, not just the cards, but the players themselves.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jingram058

This is a very interesting thread, going all the way back. Lots of baseball history, not just the cards, but the players themselves.

Hi James

I appreciate your kind words. And if you have any questions regarding any topic here, feel free to email me.... tedzan11@comcast.net


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT


It is my understanding that Eddie Collins was also an anti-tobacco guy. If so, this may explain why his "150 Series" card was never issued.

Here's a reprint of the unique Eddie Collins (with bat) proof card that American Lithographic (ALC) never issued. My theory is Eddie Collins
initially did not want his image on a tobacco card.





Subsequently ALC included Eddie Collins in their 350 Series......




I may be proven wrong about this...... anyhow, let's get a conversation going regarding this matter.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

We always enjoy meeting and seeing some of you Net54er's at the Philly Show.

Dan McKee and I will be set up at Booth # 211.

We have lots of vintage and eclectic stuff for sale or trade at reasonable prices.

Or, if you just prefer talking BB (or FB) cards with us....the conversation is free

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

I have 2 classic Thunderbird's. Here is my 1960 T-Bird (352 cu. inch V8 with 310 Horsepower). I loved these cars when
I was a teenager. I acquired this car 30 years ago. Stay tuned for my older T-Bird.





Like a "true-blue" T206 dude....check-out the T206 on the license plate of this T-Bird





Stamp collecting was my first Hobby. It was a very popular hobby in the 1940's. I mainly concentrated on the U.S. (note
the scan of the first two stamps that were issued in 1847). My folks corresponded with their relatives in Greece, so I had
a "ton" of Greek stamps. Also, I loved the colorful British Colonial stamps (for example Pitcairn Islands set of 10 stamps).

.







The 1947 World Series inspired me to collect BB cards, starting with 1947 BOND BREAD BB (48) cards). And, my 1st T206 (1981 at the Willow Grove Show).

-------




Show-n-Tell us your HOBBY(s) experience. Were Sports cards first (or girls) ?


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[steve B]

Stamps and coins first, at maybe 5 years old? Cards sort of later, one pack in 69, one in 71.. not sure if that really counts. I also collected old bottles and insulators, and lots of other stuff over the years. Always sort of kept doing a bit in stamps and cards.
Didn't get really into any of them in a "serious" way until maybe the late 70's.

And it's so very weird that I had T206s before Ted.... Bought my first in late 77, maybe very early 78.

[tedzan]

Hi Steve

I also collected Coins along with Stamps, but when the neighborhood Diner installed a Baseball Pin-Ball machine, most of my coins were "dumped" into that machine.

I got back into the BB hobby in 1977. I recovered all of my Sportscard collection (1947 - 1952 Bond Bread, Bowman, Topps cards) from my parent's attic. I attended
small BB card shows in Malls in New Jersey....acquiring cards to complete my sets.

Then in March 1981, I went to the Willow Grove Show in Pennsylvania, and my fascination for T206 cards began.

Thanks for reminiscing, Steve.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

And here are my "pride and joy"......my daughter, Zoe, and my classic 1957 T-Bird.

This is the 50th year since I acquired this classic in 1972. It's 312 cubic inch V8 (245 Horsepower) engine still "purrs like a kitten".
It has a 4-speed transmission (which includes Overdrive).

Zoe has a sentimental attachment to this car. She has fond memories from her youth, when we would remove the convertible hard
top and drove over to the Jersey shore during the Summers of the 1970's.



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[rats60]

Baseball cards were my first hobby. I did collect stamps, but it was when I was a little older. Cars came along much later.

[tlhss]

I started with stamps as well. Mostly US, and like Ted, stamps from Greece (my grandparents were immigrates from Samos).

I'm not sure I was a baseball card "collector". I bought cards with collected glass pop bottle deposit money. They were played with, traded, used and abused. I still have them, but they are very well loved So even the cards I buy now are used and well loved, since that's what I remember from my youth.

Having relatives that served during WW1 and WW2 sparked an interest in military history. I still collect and research items that vets brought back with them, along with divisional and unit histories. While serving in France during WWI, Harry Truman often wrote to his fiancé Bess Wallace. In one correspondence he wrote, “I heard a Frenchman remark that Germany was fighting for territory, England for the sea, France for patriotism, and Americans for souvenirs.”

Tim

[tedzan]

Kali Spera, Tim

My parents grew up in Smyrna, then lived in Thessaloniki, before arriving in New York from Greece.

Back in my very young days (in the 1940 - 1950's), I too, would collect empty soda bottles and redeem them.
Two cents for a Coke bottle and a nickel for the larger soda bottles. I purchased a lot of wax-packs with those pennies and nickels.


Thanx for the memories,

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rats60

Baseball cards were my first hobby. I did collect stamps, but it was when I was a little older. Cars came along much later.

I stopped collecting Sportscards in the Fall of 1952.

Moved on to Girls.....and got interested in Comic books, since my first girlfriend collected Comic books.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

For those of you who haven't seen this, here is the very last 1952 wax-pack I opened in the Fall of 1952.....and the 5 cards that were in it.
I still have them....they are in my near-master 1952 TOPPS set (555 cards)

. .





TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,
I'm sorry for sounding sort of "grumpy"...... but please cease emailing me about selling these cards. If I decided to sell them, I would advertise them
in the B/S/T. I have promised my entire collection to my Grandson Ron. Ron is now the proud owner of my 1952 TOPPS near-master set (555 cards).
Plus, several other TOPPS sets, and certain T206 stars. Eventually, he will have my N162 set (and its Album). And all my T206 sets (as I'm upgrading
certain cards in them).



Me and Grandson Ron....Univ. of Maine graduate.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Ronnie73]

Hi Ted, I started with coins at 3 years old. I had a pink plastic piggy bank with the plastic cap on the bottom. I've always been into numbers and math my whole life. I'd empty my pennies out and look at them. I noticed that many had different numbers on them and some also had letters under the numbers. So I decided to see how many different ones I could find. I didn't know I was coin collecting until like a year later when I had my pennies all in order on the floor in my room and a friend of my mom's said, I didn't know you were a coin collector, so by 4 years old I had a name to what I was doing. Nobody in my family collected anything, except for my grandfather that lived a thousand miles away, and only saw him a week out of a year or two, for maybe ten times. He collected old steam engines that he'd restore and mount all the different types onto a custom trailer he built, and would travel around the country during the summer months, and display them at engine shows. So I probably got the collecting and mechanical gene from him.

Next came stamps when I was 6, then cards and comic books when I was 7.

In my teen years, I started collecting girlfriends named Jennifer. That went on for a while.

Then in my 20's and up, I was collecting Camaro Z28's and Rally Sports pre 1982. Also, everything that's needed for a custom performance shop, along with vinyl decals and ceramic & powder coatings. Currently everything has been sitting in storage because jobs were coming in slower, and most people were not spending like they used to. So I temporarily closed my 30k sqft business 9 months before covid hit.

I still collect everything, even though I've been trying to consolidate everything the past ten years. My biggest concern is I have no kids, and I'm basically the last person in my family legacy. Plus the big 50 hits this year. Ouch. Just like how many want to buy Ted's collection, many want me to adopt them.

[2dueces]

Unfortunately when I was young I spent half my money on women and booze.
The rest I wasted.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Hi Ted, I started with coins at 3 years old. I had a pink plastic piggy bank with the plastic cap on the bottom. I've always been into numbers and math my whole life. I'd empty my pennies out and look at them. I noticed that many had different numbers on them and some also had letters under the numbers. So I decided to see how many different ones I could find. I didn't know I was coin collecting until like a year later when I had my pennies all in order on the floor in my room and a friend of my mom's said, I didn't know you were a coin collector, so by 4 years old I had a name to what I was doing. Nobody in my family collected anything, except for my grandfather that lived a thousand miles away, and only saw him a week out of a year or two, for maybe ten times. He collected old steam engines that he'd restore and mount all the different types onto a custom trailer he built, and would travel around the country during the summer months, and display them at engine shows. So I probably got the collecting and mechanical gene from him.

Next came stamps when I was 6, then cards and comic books when I was 7.

In my teen years, I started collecting girlfriends named Jennifer. That went on for a while.

Then in my 20's and up, I was collecting Camaro Z28's and Rally Sports pre 1982. Also, everything that's needed for a custom performance shop, along with vinyl decals and ceramic & powder coatings. Currently everything has been sitting in storage because jobs were coming in slower, and most people were not spending like they used to. So I temporarily closed my 30k sqft business 9 months before covid hit.

I still collect everything, even though I've been trying to consolidate everything the past ten years. My biggest concern is I have no kids, and I'm basically the last person in my family legacy. Plus the big 50 hits this year. Ouch. Just like how many want to buy Ted's collection, many want me to adopt them.

Hi Ron

I'm not sure whether I started collecting Coins or Stamps first. It doesn't really matter, though. Then the local Diner installed a Pin-Ball machine in their restaurant,
and I spent all my coins playing that machine. The Stamps and Baseball cards from my youth I still have. As I said in an earlier post, the excitement of the 7-game
1947 World Series got me hooked on collecting Baseball cards....especially New York Yankees players.
Plus we sort of share an interesting coincidence. In my teen years, I started collecting girlfriends whose name started with the letter "J" (Jean, Jane, June, Jennifer,
Judy, etc.).

Furthermore, I was a "Train nut". We lived nearby the Pennsylvania RR line. At 5 PM everyday, my neighbor and I would ride our bikes over to the tracks to see the
Steam Locomotive (2-8-4) fly-by pulling a dozen crowded passenger cars on their way to NYC. I got quite a kick reading about your Grandfather, who collected old
steam engines, and restored them. That is an amazing story.

Thanks Ron for reminiscing about the good ole days.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT



We always enjoy meeting and greetng some of you Net54er's at the Philly Show.

My Grandson, Ron, and I will be set up at Booth # 312 at the Oaks, PA facility.... Showroom B.

We have quite a bit of vintage stuff for sale or trade at reasonable prices.

Or, if you just prefer talking BB (or FB) cards with us....the conversation is free


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[FrankWakefield]

The conversation with Ted is well worth the price of admission and cost of getting there.

[tedzan]

Hi Frank

I appreciate your complimentary words.


Regarding the Philly Show....the crowds on Friday and (especially) Saturday were enormous.

Business was good, and the majority of the folks were there for the autographs on Saturday (many big-name Ball players were signing).

As usual, most of my customers were mainly T206 / T205 collectors looking for tougher backs (BROAD LEAF, RED HINDU, Pd #42, etc.).

My Grandson, Ron, from Maine is visiting us. He enjoyed the Show. Our first sale on Friday was Ron's 1969 TOPPS Mickey Mantle card.

And, had some really nice conversations with Net54 members.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

Listed here are the 72 subjects which have been confirmed with the PIEDMONT #42 back.
In my experience (40 years) of tracking Pd. #42 cards, these 72 subjects complete this run.

If you have any other T206 cards which have PIEDMONT #42 backs.....PLEASE respond.




350/460 Series............63 subjects (complete)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

Included are these 9 subjects from the 460-only Series. It appears that American Litho
filled-out their 72-card sheet by adding these 9 subjects from the 460-only Series.
Note....that 8 of these 9 guys are players from the New York teams.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

[tedzan]

Factory #42....Durham, North Carolina

ATC tobacco brands...... AMERICAN BEAUTY, PIEDMONT, SWEET CAPORAL, etc.




Five of my PIEDMONT 42's are trimmed, which doesn't phase me at all, since their backs are printed with bold blue ink.
Many of the backs of PIEDMONT 42's were printed with a very light blue ink. For example......my Hal Chase.





.


There are more of these 42's that I could show; however, I'd rather see your PIEDMONT 42's. So, why not show us your rare gems.


TED Z
.

[icurnmedic]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36424965383...=10001&mkevt=1


Cobb on the market.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36424965383...=10001&mkevt=1


Cobb on the market.

Thomas

Thanks for posting the red portrait Cobb with the Pd. #42 back.

If the price on it remains reasonable, I may try for it.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Needless to say, many of the T206 PIEDMONT #42 cards are really tough to find. Correspondingly, T205 cards
with Pd. #42 backs can be quite tough, too. Schulte is a toughie. It is my favorite card in my T205 Pd. #42 run.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Show-n-tell us of your first or favorite PIEDMONT #42 card. This Baker is my very first PIEDMONT #42.
It was so long ago, I don't really remember when I acquired it.


.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Marslife]

not my favorite, or nicest, but you'll never forget your first!

Light blue version, have it mounted "back out" in my back set display so the front subject/condition did not matter....

post rear.jpg

post front.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Marslife

not my favorite, or nicest, but you'll never forget your first!

Light blue version, have it mounted "back out" in my back set display so the front subject/condition did not matter....

Attachment 570955

Attachment 570956

Hi Cliff

You are absolutely right, you never forget your first card of a particular set (or series). Here is my first BROAD LEAF 460.




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[atx840]

Here is one for you Ted!

[MVSNYC]

Chris, awesome P42.

Ted, I bought that Murphy BL 460 off of eBay circa 2011. I think I then traded it to you for an Elberfeld Drum. Sound about right?

Here's my current BL 460...Was able to afford all 4 corners this time around.

(And here's my P42...)

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Here is one for you Ted!

Hi Chris

Nice Chance / #42.


I traded my Chance (with Dougherty) some years ago to our good buddy, Adam Goldenberg.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Hi Mike

Nice Murphy and Willis cards.

And yes, you are right....I traded you my Elberfeld Drum for the Murphy BL 460.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

It looks like the Piedmont 42 Cobb sold for a reasonable price

TED Z

[tedzan]

Just a friendly bump to encourage some more pictures and conversation regarding PIEDMONT 460 #42 cards.

And, here is Arlie Latham who is one of the 9 guys from the 460-only series.


.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[RCFire82]

A few of mine...

[tedzan]

Hi Ryan

Nice cards....especially, the Lajoie.
Thanks for posting them.

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

At the Philly Show, I acquired this Donlin PIEDMONT #42 from my good ole buddy, Dan McKee.
My Donlin run is near complete. Still needs the BROAD LEAF 460 card. I think only one is known.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[t206fanatic]

only have one

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

only have one

Hi Jeff

Thanks for posting Germany Schaefer. He was one of Baseball's really interesting characters.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

I will throw in my Harry Davis to keep this thread active. Its back is somewhat rough, nevertheless,
you acquire these rare PIEDMONT #42 cards any way you can find them.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[DeanH3]

My only Pied 42

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

My only Pied 42

Hello Dean

Thanks for posting your Walter Johnson. It appears to be a very sharp-looking card.

I'm curious as to why it is only a Grade 30 ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hello Dean

Thanks for posting your Walter Johnson. It appears to be a very sharp-looking card.

I'm curious as to why it is only a Grade 30 ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Hi Ted. There are a few paper pulls on the back. I assume from scrapbook removal. Not obtrusive at all.

[tedzan]

Displayed here are my four Walter Johnson cards. I think the one I inserted in the PIEDMONT pack is a Factory #42 card.
It was so long ago, I am not certain, anymore.

......





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Displayed here are my four Walter Johnson cards. I think the one I inserted in the PIEDMONT pack is a Factory #42 card.
It was so long ago, I am not certain, anymore.

......





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

It's the factory 25 that's in the bottom right of your image.