churchman ruth ebay auction

[ullmandds]

this auction makes no sense...there are a handful of nicer examples at BIN's on ebay for 1/2 the money.

What gives?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27538162556...YAAOSwh7Ziyx6O

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

this auction makes no sense...there are a handful of nicer examples at BIN's on ebay for 1/2 the money.

What gives?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27538162556...YAAOSwh7Ziyx6O

Pete, this sale is just plain silly. Just look at the list of bidders, seemingly all newbies to the hobby but with cash in their pockets. Are Bambinomania cards ready to move to a new galaxy?

[abothebear]

This is the one Babe Ruth card I have, so I’m glad to see it on the rise. It is one of the nicest looking Ruth cards there is, perhaps the best looking color baseball card of its decade. Additionally, I think it (along with the two related versions) is the only lithograph tobacco card of Ruth (although I’d be ready to be corrected on that, as I am not an expert on Ruth cards).

[oldjudge]

How can it be a Babe Ruth card if nowhere on the card is the player identified? They drew a Ruth like figure but avoided paying royalties since there is no name. To me the card is worthless.

[abothebear]

The same composition is noted as Ruth here.
https://oldcardboard.com/eNews/2007/enews44/eNews44.htm

[glchen]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

How can it be a Babe Ruth card if nowhere on the card is the player identified? They drew a Ruth like figure but avoided paying royalties since there is no name. To me the card is worthless.

It is Babe Ruth on that card. It's the same image as the 1929 Shonen Club Babe Ruth postcard, where I believe Ruth is identified in Japanese on the card.

Edit: Looks like George beat me on this one.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

this auction makes no sense...there are a handful of nicer examples at BIN's on ebay for 1/2 the money.

What gives?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27538162556...YAAOSwh7Ziyx6O

I'm not saying this auction isn't legit, but I was tracking/bidding on another card by this seller, the 1934 Quaker Oats Premium here: Link

The weird thing about this Quaker Oats auction was that I put in a snipe of ~$1000 for this card. A few days into the auction, the bids went above my snipe, so I got an email from Gixen that I was outbid. Then the next day, the bids mysteriously dropped under my $1000 snipe again. However, when I looked at the bidding history, there were no retractions. Then 1-2 days later, the bids again went over my $1000 snipe. And then the next day it was below $1000 again. On the final day, it went above $1000 permanently and ended where at the final price.

It seemed to me as if the seller was trying to find out the max bids from the bidders, but then there again, there were no retractions listed, so I have no idea what was going on. Maybe it was an ebay technical issue, but it still seemed weird to me.

[67airborne]

Hello
It’s been a couple years since I’ve been on here, 2005. I got back into the hobby at the end of 2020. Still a few names out there that look familiar to me and I’m sure many are gone as well. These were my auctions I had on eBay. ( what a joke to sell there now) Unfortunately the auction for the Quaker Oats Ruth did get the bid reset twice. Both times it was because people bid on things they know little or nothing about or don’t do any research. Both bidders thought the facsimile Ruth signature was a one of a kind autograph and asked me to cancel their bids. So it’s easier to cancel a bid then have a none paying buyer. But that’s just my opinion.
Have a great day all. Jeff

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'm not saying this auction isn't legit, but I was tracking/bidding on another card by this seller, the 1934 Quaker Oats Premium here: Link

The weird thing about this Quaker Oats auction was that I put in a snipe of ~$1000 for this card. A few days into the auction, the bids went above my snipe, so I got an email from Gixen that I was outbid. Then the next day, the bids mysteriously dropped under my $1000 snipe again. However, when I looked at the bidding history, there were no retractions. Then 1-2 days later, the bids again went over my $1000 snipe. And then the next day it was below $1000 again. On the final day, it went above $1000 permanently and ended where at the final price.

It seemed to me as if the seller was trying to find out the max bids from the bidders, but then there again, there were no retractions listed, so I have no idea what was going on. Maybe it was an ebay technical issue, but it still seemed weird to me.

I also was watching the 3 ruth cards sold by this seller. All 3 went quite high…imo.

[67airborne]

Hi Pete
You know the old saying, even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days lol. Yesterday, I got to play the old dog. I was pretty surprised and happy with a few of the auctions I ran also. Nice to be on the other side for once. Have a great day

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 67airborne

Hi Pete
You know the old saying, even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days lol. Yesterday, I got to play the old dog. I was pretty surprised and happy with a few of the auctions I ran also. Nice to be on the other side for once. Have a great day

Yeah whatever makes no sense when there are a handful of better examples as bin’s on eBay for less money just does not make sense?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'm not saying this auction isn't legit, but I was tracking/bidding on another card by this seller, the 1934 Quaker Oats Premium here: Link

The weird thing about this Quaker Oats auction was that I put in a snipe of ~$1000 for this card. A few days into the auction, the bids went above my snipe, so I got an email from Gixen that I was outbid. Then the next day, the bids mysteriously dropped under my $1000 snipe again. However, when I looked at the bidding history, there were no retractions. Then 1-2 days later, the bids again went over my $1000 snipe. And then the next day it was below $1000 again. On the final day, it went above $1000 permanently and ended where at the final price.

It seemed to me as if the seller was trying to find out the max bids from the bidders, but then there again, there were no retractions listed, so I have no idea what was going on. Maybe it was an ebay technical issue, but it still seemed weird to me.

If the seller cancels a bid does that count as a retraction?

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

How can it be a Babe Ruth card if nowhere on the card is the player identified? They drew a Ruth like figure but avoided paying royalties since there is no name. To me the card is worthless.

Babe Ruth's name not appearing on the card does not mean it is not a Babe Ruth card. The image and likeness (not a name) is what make it a Ruth card.

The artist did not draw a "Ruth like figure," he/she drew Ruth from a photograph (just like the T-206 cards were drawn/painted from real life photographs). Here is one of many photographs that could have served as the model. It is not even debatable that the card shows Ruth.

Worthless? Maybe to you, but the market indicates otherwise.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by 67airborne

Hello
It’s been a couple years since I’ve been on here, 2005. I got back into the hobby at the end of 2020. Still a few names out there that look familiar to me and I’m sure many are gone as well. These were my auctions I had on eBay. ( what a joke to sell there now) Unfortunately the auction for the Quaker Oats Ruth did get the bid reset twice. Both times it was because people bid on things they know little or nothing about or don’t do any research. Both bidders thought the facsimile Ruth signature was a one of a kind autograph and asked me to cancel their bids. So it’s easier to cancel a bid then have a none paying buyer. But that’s just my opinion.
Have a great day all. Jeff

Got it. Make sense. I think ebay should mark these cancelled bids as a retraction or something, but I learn something new every day.

[oldjudge]

To me, no name, not a Ruth card. That's just my opinion. If you want to call it a Ruth card knock yourself out. Was the image drawn to resemble Ruth, almost surely.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

How can it be a Babe Ruth card if nowhere on the card is the player identified? They drew a Ruth like figure but avoided paying royalties since there is no name. To me the card is worthless.

That's a bit of a hyperbolic statement, but I understand the thought. As a Churchman and no identification, I have never considered this card to be worth more than 150 bucks and would cap at that value personally in any purchase.

However, much like the Sanella, those priced out of the boom looking for a Ruth have gravitated to these cards and fed the rise. Sadly, in my estimations these oddballs that snuck in by association will take the hardest hit in any settling of the market if it comes to fruition.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

To me, no name, not a Ruth card. That's just my opinion. If you want to call it a Ruth card knock yourself out. Was the image drawn to resemble Ruth, almost surely.

As opposed to a card that shows a cartoon image of Babe Ruth‘s hands yet has his name? To you this is more a Babe Ruth card than a churchman?

To me this is a grey area it is obviously Babe Ruth‘s image. It may be a less desirable British issue that does not mention him by name but there is no question it is Babe Ruth. I would much rather have one of these than a card that says Babe Ruth yet shows nothing that resembles him at all.

To each their own!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

It is not even debatable that the card shows Ruth.

I think without the certain identification on the back it is certainly debatable. It would be an uphill climb and I am on your side thinking it is Ruth, but it's certainly debatable.

Also, if it's a fantasy painting of a "Babe Ruth type character" to avoid licensing, is that really a Babe Ruth card or a baseball themed card? I think the 1929 Shonen Club proves it is Ruth but things roll into into semantics, so it throws a wrench into it for me.

We could still be upended in the future much like this one, lol (sarcasm fyi)-

[npa589]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If the seller cancels a bid does that count as a retraction?

I had this happen to me as well on an auction a while back. Clearly fraudulent. Apparently it's a big loophole in eBay's auctions. When it happened to me, I then asked the seller to cancel my bids, and he refused. I contacted eBay, whose advice was to let it run its course, and to not pay if I win. They said they would remove the unpaid item strike after a week or so. I spent hours on eBay chat trying to figure this out - and in the meantime uncovered around 5 ids that this moron used to shill his auctions.

[Exhibitman]

Well, I think vintage card collectors are savvy enough to understand when a card depicts Ruth, even if it isn't labeled. Examples are priced accordingly.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Yeah whatever makes no sense when there are a handful of better examples as bin’s on eBay for less money just does not make sense?

I think what may happen is that a lot of people that still look at cards on Ebay have realized there are a ton of overpriced BIN's on there, and rather than looking through all of them when doing a search, may just look at auctions only. That is still a search selection option. In that case, there may be below market priced BIN's that people don't see.

Also, when taking part in auctions, people sometimes get caught up in the action and overbid without realizing it.

I think these can both be some viable explanations to what was happening.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by BobC

I think what may happen is that a lot of people that still look at cards on Ebay have realized there are a ton of overpriced BIN's on there, and rather than looking through all of them when doing a search, may just look at auctions only. That is still a search selection option. In that case, there may be below market priced BIN's that people don't see.

Also, when taking part in auctions, people sometimes get caught up in the action and overbid without realizing it.

I think these can both be some viable explanations to what was happening.

certainly possible...I AM GUILTY of getting caught up in an auction and overpaying...more than once.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

certainly possible...I AM GUILTY of getting caught up in an auction and overpaying...more than once.

LOL

I am guilty of only doing Ebay searches for auctions sometimes. Usually don't bother looking at all the BIN's as they are normally way overpriced by sellers looking for some newbie or uniformed collector to overpay.

[abothebear]

If you zoom in real close you get all the proof you could need.



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