This is what's wrong with the average ebay buyer

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

USPS will only allow a PWE to be 1/4 inch thick. If you put a piece of cardboard in there you are going to exceed that and if so shipping will be charged as a package. I have had to pay postage due many times from a seller who tried to put cardboard in an envelope and mail it with just a stamp.

A PWE is principally used to mail letters, and they are sorted through mechanical feeders. USPS has a special 85 cent stamp you can use to have the PWE hand sorted. My local post office advised that you should also mark the envelope NON MACHINABLE in red on the left side.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

A Card Saver 1 taped to a folded invoice, then placed in the envelope, qualifies for the new eBay Standard Envelope option and it gives some protection to the card, plus the total weight is under one ounce.

Also, the PO raised the price of non-machinable letters to 30 cents, so you will need one of the new 88 cent stamps for a one ounce non-machinable letter.

In addition, do not mark envelopes that have the printed eBay Standard Envelope postage as non-machinable. These letters are machinable, and if you mark them non-machinable, your buyer will need to pay a postage due charge. These letters are tracked when they go through the letter processing machines at the entry and the destination processing plants. If you mark them as non-machinable, they don't go through the machines and they will not be tracked. The bar-codes on these letters are not able to be scanned by the clerks scanners or the carriers scanners - they are only detected by the letter processing machines. The eBay Standard Envelopes are only meant to be used on machinable letters.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Utilizing that feature was an option for sellers last time I checked.

Perhaps it shouldn't be an option. I'm sure others here might disagree, but Ebay ought to be for buying and selling items, not displaying them for five years with the remote possibility that maybe some idiot will come along and pay five times what it's worth

[jh691626]

Originally Posted by buymycards

A Card Saver 1 taped to a folded invoice, then placed in the envelope, qualifies for the new eBay Standard Envelope option and it gives some protection to the card, plus the total weight is under one ounce.

Also, the PO raised the price of non-machinable letters to 30 cents, so you will need one of the new 88 cent stamps for a one ounce non-machinable letter.

In addition, do not mark envelopes that have the printed eBay Standard Envelope postage as non-machinable. These letters are machinable, and if you mark them non-machinable, your buyer will need to pay a postage due charge. These letters are tracked when they go through the letter processing machines at the entry and the destination processing plants. If you mark them as non-machinable, they don't go through the machines and they will not be tracked. The bar-codes on these letters are not able to be scanned by the clerks scanners or the carriers scanners - they are only detected by the letter processing machines. The eBay Standard Envelopes are only meant to be used on machinable letters.

Agree with Rick, we have been putting a card (or several) in a sleeve and holder, taping it to folded piece of paper, and using the eBay standard envelope postage, probably for >100 sales at this point and it has worked great. It's actually great for both sellers and buyers for low-cost cards and I have not had any buyers note either slow shipping or card damage so far.

Jeff

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Perhaps it shouldn't be an option. I'm sure others here might disagree, but Ebay ought to be for buying and selling items, not displaying them for five years with the remote possibility that maybe some idiot will come along and pay five times what it's worth

Shouldn’t be an option or shouldn’t be optional?

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by jh691626

Agree with Rick, we have been putting a card (or several) in a sleeve and holder, taping it to folded piece of paper, and using the eBay standard envelope postage, probably for >100 sales at this point and it has worked great. It's actually great for both sellers and buyers for low-cost cards and I have not had any buyers note either slow shipping or card damage so far.

Jeff

But you wouldn't ship it in just the sleeve without the (presumably toploader) holder, right?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I ran into this today. It was listed at $28.95 with best offer. Figured I would try an offer. I used all 5 you get and the last one was for $28.50 and it was auto rejected.

Nothing is more stubborn than an eBay Seller.

About 4 months ago, I saw a vintage Glove I really wanted. But it was overpriced by just over $100. I wrote the seller that it would not sell at his asking price, and offered that once his auction ended without a sale, I would pay him 15% above market value for an outright sale. Easy peasy... But the seller never had the courtesy to reply back.

So he relisted it a couple of times, with no luck of course. Then he relisted it for $10 less... no sale. Then he proceeded to do the same reduction 9 more times... still no sale.

When he finally reduced it a 10th time, I ended up buying it for $15 less than my original offer (which was made 4 months prior). So stubbornness cost him in the form of extra listing fees, 4 months of stagnancy, and 15 bucks.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Did you respond to his first offer, though? I always find it kind of rude or annoying when I make an offer and the seller doesn't even respond to say thanks but no thanks.

The offer was automatically rejected due to the floor I set on the Best Offer function. I never even read it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Perhaps it shouldn't be an option. I'm sure others here might disagree, but Ebay ought to be for buying and selling items, not displaying them for five years with the remote possibility that maybe some idiot will come along and pay five times what it's worth

Sellers like to have the autonomy to set whatever price they want, especially for offbeat or unique items. I even know some guys who will list stuff at a price beyond market because they don't actually want to sell; their wives demanded a sale effort. Any sort of automatic markdown rule would make the site less friendly for many sellers. I know I would not tolerate it. It would just be one more nuisance policy to circumvent.

If someone wants to operate a card museum, let them.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Sellers like to have the autonomy to set whatever price they want, especially for offbeat or unique items. I even know some guys who will list stuff at a price beyond market because they don't actually want to sell; their wives demanded a sale effort. Any sort of automatic markdown rule would make the site less friendly for many sellers. I know I would not tolerate it. It would just be one more nuisance policy to circumvent.

If someone wants to operate a card museum, let them.

If your wife is demanding an ROI on an investment that she's not seven interested in, namely your hobby, you have bigger problems than some idiot buyer trying to hammer you down.

[ValKehl]

I really like the new eBay PWE First Class shipping method because I get to print a shipping label with a USPS tracking #, I receive a discount on the postage, and I no longer need to pay the non-machinable surcharge. What's not to like?

I put the card sold in a card saver and sandwich it between 2 pieces of cardboard cut slightly smaller than the PWE. Obviously, the cardboard has to be relatively thin in order not to exceed the 1/4" maximum thickness. I usually use cardboard that I cut to size from empty dry cereal boxes (I have an endless supply of such boxes, as I eat dry cereal for breakfast 90+% of the time!). The cardboard on some dry cereal boxes is so thin that I can use 3 pieces for a stiffener sandwich and not exceed the 1/4" limit.

[jh691626]

Originally Posted by ASF123

But you wouldn't ship it in just the sleeve without the (presumably toploader) holder, right?

Yes, for sure!

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by jh691626

Yes, for sure!

Yes, you would, or yes, you wouldn’t?

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Shouldn’t be an option or shouldn’t be optional?

I was suggesting that it should be a policy, not something sellers could decide to do or not do. But, of course, if that was the case, sellers could simply post the item as a new listing rather than a relist. Perhaps eBay could charge one commission/listing fee for a new listing and a lower commission/listing fee for a relist at a reduced price. That would incentivize sellers to lower the price after a non-sale, but not necessarily require it.

People say why do you care? Just ignore the ones at ridiculous prices. But the issue I have is that I have to wade through tons of listings (and automatic email notices of "new" listings that I get in my in box every day) for items that the seller really doesn't want to sell. It makes it harder to find genuine listings and actually discourages me (and other potential buyers) from looking. It is more than just a tiny inconvenience or I wouldn't care about it.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I was suggesting that it should be a policy, not something sellers could decide to do or not do. But, of course, if that was the case, sellers could simply post the item as a new listing rather than a relist. Perhaps eBay could charge one commission/listing fee for a new listing and a lower commission/listing fee for a relist at a reduced price. That would incentivize sellers to lower the price after a non-sale, but not necessarily require it.

People say why do you care? Just ignore the ones at ridiculous prices. But the issue I have is that I have to wade through tons of listings (and automatic email notices of "new" listings that I get in my in box every day) for items that the seller really doesn't want to sell. It makes it harder to find genuine listings and actually discourages me (and other potential buyers) from looking. It is more than just a tiny inconvenience or I wouldn't care about it.

Agreed that the concept of the tiered pricing is good and the policy changes needed.
Agreed that it sucks wading thru the BS listings
Sadly I do not believe that Ebay will change the policy. Unless they are reading this thread of course

[jh691626]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Yes, you would, or yes, you wouldn’t?

Yes, for sure would have the card in a toploader. If it were just in a sleeve, I think it would/could get damaged. We just put a single card in a sleeve and toploader, and if it's 2-5 cards or so, we put them into a wide toploader (you can do this for envelopes up to 3 oz.)

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by jh691626

Yes, for sure would have the card in a toploader. If it were just in a sleeve, I think it would/could get damaged. We just put a single card in a sleeve and toploader, and if it's 2-5 cards or so, we put them into a wide toploader (you can do this for envelopes up to 3 oz.)

Thanks - I asked on the previous page whether I should send a "hey, just FYI" email to an apparently inexperienced seller who shipped in just a soft sleeve. Thoughts?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Thanks - I asked on the previous page whether I should send a "hey, just FYI" email to an apparently inexperienced seller who shipped in just a soft sleeve. Thoughts?

I wouldn't. My experiences are different. I have had great luck with cards in penny sleeves or card savers in PWEs. Had terrible luck in toploader and even worse when someone uses cardboard or other stiffeners. Most of the time the ones with extra stuff show up with postage due.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Sellers like to have the autonomy to set whatever price they want, especially for offbeat or unique items. I even know some guys who will list stuff at a price beyond market because they don't actually want to sell; their wives demanded a sale effort. Any sort of automatic markdown rule would make the site less friendly for many sellers. I know I would not tolerate it. It would just be one more nuisance policy to circumvent.

If someone wants to operate a card museum, let them.

I know a few friends that do that. Ebay is still the wild wild west a little bit. It's like a box of chocolates....you never know what you are going to get.
.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

USPS will only allow a PWE to be 1/4 inch thick. If you put a piece of cardboard in there you are going to exceed that and if so shipping will be charged as a package. I have had to pay postage due many times from a seller who tried to put cardboard in an envelope and mail it with just a stamp.

A PWE is principally used to mail letters, and they are sorted through mechanical feeders. USPS has a special 85 cent stamp you can use to have the PWE hand sorted. My local post office advised that you should also mark the envelope NON MACHINABLE in red on the left side.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yeah, all of that.
A toploader isn't flexible enough to avoid being non-machinable.

Unless they've changed it, there's a pitfall for that 1/4 inch thing.
if it's 1/4 + it counts as a package. Especially if it isn't flexible.
BUT
If it's under 3/4 and isn't going priority the tracking number given through click and ship isn't allowed.

Fortunately the guy who bought the smallish print I sold worked for the government so he totally understood when I explained the delay and why the package was much stiffer and had a single packing peanut inside.
It cost extra but I just paid it the whole thing was complicated enough.

The postmaster and I had a nice discussion about the conflicting regs, and how I'd seen clerks offer the unavailable delivery confirmation on first class flats over the counter. His biggest concern was that whoever made my package be returned for postage had used a rate that had been obsolete for about a year!

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Welcome to the world of EBay

This is also why some sellers will charge over market value.

Because many uneducated collectors/investors will happily pay it.

I see this with tickets these days. There is a BOOM in uneducated collectors right now being taken full advantage of. The hobby is in a sad state right now.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

On the flip-side, I can't recall ever having a buyer refuse to pay, make a return, or renege on a transaction. Just lucky, I suppose.

There are a LOT of scumbag sellers that care nothing other than ripping people off. I'm getting sick of it.

[ballparks]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

Perhaps it shouldn't be an option. I'm sure others here might disagree, but Ebay ought to be for buying and selling items, not displaying them for five years with the remote possibility that maybe some idiot will come along and pay five times what it's worth

If they put a 1% listing fee for every time something was listed (waived if sold), these imbeciles that list $150 tickets for $9000 will stop their practice of trying to rip people off and screw the hobby. I fully agree.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by steve B

Yeah, all of that.
A toploader isn't flexible enough to avoid being non-machinable.

I don't think that is true. I've mailed literally hundreds of envelopes with a card (or 2 or 3) in top loaders inside a PWE. I tape the holder to a folded sheet of paper inside the envelope. I also put a piece of packaging tape, wrapped around both ends of the top of the envelope, to avoid the envelope flap catching in the machine. All for a single forever stamp. I've never had anyone come back to me and say they were charged for additional postage (but I deal with great traders so who knows what they aren't telling me ). I've also not had envelopes get destroyed, or if so, no more so than padded envelopes.

That doesn't mean I should NOT do this though. Just that they do seem to be flexible enough to go through when packaged appropriately.

To follow on to another point you made. If you don't like what an PO employee is telling you, ask a different one. They might even tell you how to send a small box of cards using a flat rate envelope.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I really like the new eBay PWE First Class shipping method because I get to print a shipping label with a USPS tracking #, I receive a discount on the postage, and I no longer need to pay the non-machinable surcharge. What's not to like?

I put the card sold in a card saver and sandwich it between 2 pieces of cardboard cut slightly smaller than the PWE. Obviously, the cardboard has to be relatively thin in order not to exceed the 1/4" maximum thickness. I usually use cardboard that I cut to size from empty dry cereal boxes (I have an endless supply of such boxes, as I eat dry cereal for breakfast 90+% of the time!). The cardboard on some dry cereal boxes is so thin that I can use 3 pieces for a stiffener sandwich and not exceed the 1/4" limit.

I do the same…or sometimes use an old Donruss puzzle piece as the backer.

I sell cards cheap, and new top loaders are like 35 cents each shipped…so I stopped using top loaders for low value cards once my stash ran out.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by ASF123

eBay buyer etiquette question: I just received a card that was shipped in a soft sleeve, between two pieces of paper (not cardboard) in a plain envelope. It was not an expensive card (about $10) and the seller only charged $1 for shipping. But I would have expected at least some protection - a top loader, a padded envelope, or cardboard backing. Any one of the above.

The card arrived undamaged, fortunately, so all's well that ends well. The seller only has 18 feedback, all positive, so I don't want to drop a neutral on him as all the other elements of the deal were fine. But should I send him a private message, just as an "FYI" for what appears to be a new seller, or is that considered obnoxious?

Most of my ebay sales are single cards I ship in a PWE. I charge 60 cents. The card is put in a penny sleeve then a toploader secured with a piece of removable tape. Then I protect with light cardboard on both sides inside the packing slip. I have done this for years with no issues from buyers or the post office.

When I started selling on ebay over 20 years ago, several buyers gave me tips or suggestions. They were very helpful so I think you should do the same.

Mike

[Jim65]

If a standard white envelope is over 1/4", it should go up to a large envelope, not a package. I regularly send cards in PWE with 2 pieces of corrugated and it costs $1.16. If the clerk is charging you for a package, I would talk to the Postmaster.

[jh691626]

Originally Posted by mikemb

Most of my ebay sales are single cards I ship in a PWE. I charge 60 cents. The card is put in a penny sleeve then a toploader secured with a piece of removable tape. Then I protect with light cardboard on both sides inside the packing slip. I have done this for years with no issues from buyers or the post office.

When I started selling on ebay over 20 years ago, several buyers gave me tips or suggestions. They were very helpful so I think you should do the same.

Mike

I agree. It seems like a number of us have independently come to a similar solution (card in penny sleeve and toploader, taped to piece of folded paper, with or without cardboard) with good luck, and it might be nice to suggest that to this seller. Jeff

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by tschock

I don't think that is true. I've mailed literally hundreds of envelopes with a card (or 2 or 3) in top loaders inside a PWE. I tape the holder to a folded sheet of paper inside the envelope. I also put a piece of packaging tape, wrapped around both ends of the top of the envelope, to avoid the envelope flap catching in the machine. All for a single forever stamp. I've never had anyone come back to me and say they were charged for additional postage (but I deal with great traders so who knows what they aren't telling me ). I've also not had envelopes get destroyed, or if so, no more so than padded envelopes.

That doesn't mean I should NOT do this though. Just that they do seem to be flexible enough to go through when packaged appropriately.

To follow on to another point you made. If you don't like what an PO employee is telling you, ask a different one. They might even tell you how to send a small box of cards using a flat rate envelope.

Being able to use a rigid TL in a PWE with a forever stamp must vary from USPS branch to branch. If I mail a PWE with a TL with just a forever stamp in my local zipcode, it is as good as returned to me the next day having never left town....CS2 or CS1 seem to be fine with my local branch. Now I have no issues receiving PWE with TLs, just sending them.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Being able to use a rigid TL in a PWE with a forever stamp must vary from USPS branch to branch.

Larry,

That is very likely true. Just like the interpretations of the regulations seem to vary from one PO or PO worker to another. I was noting that the machines could physically process them.

[Exhibitman]

A TL is fine; think of all the junk mail you get with rigid envelopes, mock credit cards, membership cards, etc. All have pieces of rigid plastic or cardboard. A TL in an envelope has never been a issue for me to send. I tape it to a piece of paper.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tschock

I don't think that is true. I've mailed literally hundreds of envelopes with a card (or 2 or 3) in top loaders inside a PWE. I tape the holder to a folded sheet of paper inside the envelope. I also put a piece of packaging tape, wrapped around both ends of the top of the envelope, to avoid the envelope flap catching in the machine. All for a single forever stamp. I've never had anyone come back to me and say they were charged for additional postage (but I deal with great traders so who knows what they aren't telling me ). I've also not had envelopes get destroyed, or if so, no more so than padded envelopes.

That doesn't mean I should NOT do this though. Just that they do seem to be flexible enough to go through when packaged appropriately.

To follow on to another point you made. If you don't like what an PO employee is telling you, ask a different one. They might even tell you how to send a small box of cards using a flat rate envelope.

I went looking for the page, and it looks like they removed the requirements on flexibility.
The piece I had was a photo mailer, about 6x9, with a print and two cardboard stiffeners. It was not at all flexible. The old rule for flats (Now large envelopes) required something like more than 1/4 inch of droop when it was held by one end over hanging a countertop.
For letters it was a certain radius it had to go around in the machine. I always sent cards in either a toploader or sleeved and between two pieces of cardboard. And yes, small lots up to about 400 cards went in small flat rate boxes. (And later when they got expensive, a small flat rate box inside a flat rate envelope. Doable with the smallest flat rate box )

That particular bit of mail I did discuss with a clerk first, who basically said my printouts of the appropriate page from the Domestic Mail Manual (The post offices rule book) didn't matter.
The guy I ended up talking to was the postmaster for the entire city, so not much room to ask to see someone else.
He had his own printout of a different section.
Mine was the standards for what was and wasn't a package, his was for what made a first class package qualify for delivery confirmation.

Ebays click and ship system at the time automatically added DC to everything, even if it didn't qualify.

I shipped enough odd stuff that I knew the rules pretty well. But those rules have lots of room for interpretation. Like how I used to send larger lots of cards media mail since it allowed "unbound printed matter" After a couple years the main office opened one and told me I couldn't do that anymore. My argument that cards qualified as educational materials was not agreed with...

[Aj-hman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Not intelligence, just time. Listing each cheap card singly is a huge time-suck.

Looks like a you don’t have time they don’t have time situation.