2021 HOF Ballot

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Francisco Rodriguez? Not that I'd vote for him either.

What, that bum? He's got a losing W-L record for his career (52-53)

He's got the save total, although worth fewer WAR than either Wagner or Nathan, but yeah, he's probably in the conversation, especially at that level below Wagner.

If Jonathan Papelbon wasn't basically done at age 34, I think he'd have had a a chance...but hard to make the HOF with only 725 IP.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

What, that bum? He's got a losing W-L record for his career (52-53)

He's got the save total, although worth fewer WAR than either Wagner or Nathan, but yeah, he's probably in the conversation, especially at that level below Wagner.

If Jonathan Papelbon wasn't basically done at age 34, I think he'd have had a a chance...but hard to make the HOF with only 725 IP.

I mean, if we're putting in closers with five great or near-great seasons and lots of bad ones, like Eck, then Rodriguez is a lock.

[toledo_mudhen]

I have often wondered - Just Why Is It that Gil Hodges has never been enshrined? Did he like kill somebodies cat or something?

[alaskapaul3]

There aren't any serious new 2021 guys , but Torii Hunter was a maniac in CF against that baggie.

I like when guys at least 'get the nod' for their second year of eligibility like Abreu and hopefully, Hunter.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I mean, if we're putting in closers with five great or near-great seasons and lots of bad ones, like Eck, then Rodriguez is a lock.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

[triwak]

Originally Posted by YazFenway08

Are the names under consideration for the Early Baseball Era already known? I think this vote was moved into late 2021 but wasn’t sure if the ballot was already set before Covid hit.

I have wondered about this also. Can't seem to find any info on the ballots for EITHER Era's committee (there were to be two), prior to their postponement. Would be nice to know. Perhaps the whole ballot-selection process was also postponed until 2021?

[Cooper1927]

Looks like it’s not an every year thing...

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fam...ras-committees


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[Kenny Cole]

They probably need yet another committee for consideration of eligible Negro League players. I doubt anyone one the Early Baseball Committee knows come here from sic 'em about who should be elected from the Negro Leagues, and that is one area where there are still plenty of deserving players IMO.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

Couple things:

1) His Cy and MVP were a joke. He wasn't even remotely deserving of either one.

2) Eck was elected because of his relief years. Period. And they simply weren't that good.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Couple things:

1) His Cy and MVP were a joke. He wasn't even remotely deserving of either one.

2) Eck was elected because of his relief years. Period. And they simply weren't that good.

Joke or not, he did win them. Sadly, players seldom get credit for awards they should have won or dinged for awards they shouldn’t have.

And if Eck got elected for just those 5 years, why not other relievers with 5 great years? Do you think the “first modern closer” thing was a big bump? Stanger things have happened!

[Mike D.]

Interestingly, Clemens had the highest pitching WAR in 1992, the year won his Cy Young (Messina was 2nd and also a deserving choice).

He also had the highest WAR in 1990, the year Bob Welch won (Clemens was 2nd, but led in WAR 10.4 vs 2.9).

So...he won 7 Cy Young awards, but should have won 2 more. Crazy!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Joke or not, he did win them. Sadly, players seldom get credit for awards they should have won or dinged for awards they shouldn’t have.

And if Eck got elected for just those 5 years, why not other relievers with 5 great years? Do you think the “first modern closer” thing was a big bump? Stanger things have happened!

There's no doubt he got in for being the "first modern closer". I don't see that as being worth much but the voters clearly did.

There's a LOT of guys who had 5 great years as relievers (I wouldn't say Eck even had 5...). That's kinda my whole point. His career as a reliever, at the end of the day, was nothing special.

[Throttlesteer]

The idea that certain positions shouldn't be in the Hall is confusing. If they're a significant part of the game for the generation, shouldn't they have candidates for the Hall? Should kickers be in the Football HOF? What about defensive-minded defensemen in the NHL?

We celebrate scoring and love to promote the offensive aspects of the game. But, there are a number of players who were the best of their generation and helped teams win in other ways. It's unfortunate great relievers or amazing defensive talents won't get a nod (with a few exceptions).

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

The idea that certain positions shouldn't be in the Hall is confusing. If they're a significant part of the game for the generation, shouldn't they have candidates for the Hall? Should kickers be in the Football HOF? What about defensive-minded defensemen in the NHL?

We celebrate scoring and love to promote the offensive aspects of the game. But, there are a number of players who were the best of their generation and helped teams win in other ways. It's unfortunate great relievers or amazing defensive talents won't get a nod (with a few exceptions).

They don't put kick returners in the Hall. They basically don't put punters in there. Reason being they play so little. Closers are the same. They play 65 innings out of more than 1400 each year. And then only under ridiculously favorable circumstances (no outs, nobody on, with a lead, one inning only). So, if you're going to be that limited, you better be incredibly good for a long time.

[shagrotn77]

I have often wondered - Just Why Is It that Gil Hodges has never been enshrined? Did he like kill somebodies cat or something?

I hope you're not a big Ted Williams fan, because this might turn your stomach. In 1993, when he served as head of the HOF Veteran's Committee, Williams DISALLOWED Roy Campanella's votes because he couldn't be present for the meeting. Nevermind the fact that Campy was sick and passed away a few months later. His vote would have given Hodges the 12 (75%) that he needed for induction. Why Williams was allowed to do this, I have no idea. But I lost an absolute ton of respect for him when I heard the story. I don't know if there was bad blood between him and Campy, him and Hodges, or both, but it was a truly awful thing to do.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

I hope you're not a big Ted Williams fan, because this might turn your stomach. In 1993, when he served as head of the HOF Veteran's Committee, Williams DISALLOWED Roy Campanella's votes because he couldn't be present for the meeting. Nevermind the fact that Campy was sick and passed away a few months later. His vote would have given Hodges the 12 (75%) that he needed for induction. Why Williams was allowed to do this, I have no idea. But I lost an absolute ton of respect for him when I heard the story. I don't know if there was bad blood between him and Campy, him and Hodges, or both, but it was a truly awful thing to do.

Had not heard that. Wow, that really sucks.

[packs]

Every now and then there's a post about Ted Williams and why his memorabilia doesn't sell for more. Someone always brings up him not being a Yankee but more often than not I hear a story like that one. Doesn't make me want to buy his cards.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by packs

Every now and then there's a post about Ted Williams and why his memorabilia doesn't sell for more. Someone always brings up him not being a Yankee but more often than not I hear a story like that one. Doesn't make me want to buy his cards.

For every story like this, though, there's one about his involvement with the Jimmy Fund or his advocating for Negro League greats to be inducted into the HOF...people are complicated!

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

For every story like this, though, there's one about his involvement with the Jimmy Fund or his advocating for Negro League greats to be inducted into the HOF...people are complicated!

True enough. Anecdotal of course but I don't tend to hear many good stories about Ted Williams the person.

[Ricky]

Williams likely held a grudge in this case... there must have been some history. Maybe Campy didn't support Phil Rizzuto in 1987, who Williams strongly supported?
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/03...3402541746000/

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

We’ll, Eckersley is a bit more than “just a closer who was dominant for 5 years”.

He did 150 games as a starter, and was kind of the prototype for the modern closer. Won a CY and an MVP. Then had a 5 non-dominant years as a closer that saw him save an additional 150 saves.

In total, it adds up to HOF...kind of a compiler with a dominant stretch.

As a total aside on Eck....I find it amusing that he’s a broadcaster now (and he’s actually REALLY good) - in the early 80’s if you told a Red Sox fan that two players from that era would be broadcasters, and that it’d be Eck and Rice, they’d throw you and your time machine right out of the Cask n Flaggin!

Awesome post! 100% agree. Eck had insane control, from what I recall. In fact, when Ron Shandler does fantasy baseball analysis of pitchers and they have a 6.0 or 7.0+ K/BB ratio and insane BPVs (base performance values), he notes that they are "Eck-like" or in "vintage Eck territory". Something to that effect.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Awesome post! 100% agree. Eck had insane control, from what I recall. In fact, when Ron Shandler does fantasy baseball analysis of pitchers and they have a 6.0 or 7.0+ K/BB ratio and insane BPVs (base performance values), he notes that they are "Eck-like" or in "vintage Eck territory". Something to that effect.

He had a couple amazing years but a career 3.25 K/BB is nothing special.