PWCC green cobb psa 5.5 going through the roof

[1952boyntoncollector]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSw9mFWMm5z

bidding over $14,000 which has to be way over SMR... when I had two PSA 4s nicely centered Green cobbs..all I would hear about is SMR this and SMR that....

the waterfront properties really taking off...!

[calvindog]

I'd be more impressed if any of the last ten bids came from bidders who didn't bid in PWCC auctions 50 to 100 percent of the time. His auctions are just filled with shill bids and any price he gets on a card is suspect.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'd be more impressed if any of the last ten bids came from bidders who didn't bid in PWCC auctions 50 to 100 percent of the time. His auctions are just filled with shill bids and any price he gets on a card is suspect.

eh he is selling a 450k mantle..he not exactly fly by night...I probably bid 50% of the time on his auctions because private sellers tend to shill and all the of sudden the auction is 'canceled' heck even on a net54 reverse auction a old mill cobb just disappeared......not sure why someone would shill over $8,000..it already breaking new ground..14k blows it off the roof yet you brining up shilling? funny ..go bid on your own card 300% more than the what was perceived present market value and win it back and pay 8-10% to win your own card back...in this case would be over $1000... no way shilling is involved in the winning bids for the card.....if you think otherwise then basically every AH and every other ebay suspect is suspect....BIN's are suspect .. .everything is suspect...just pay what you want for the card and don't pay a penny more and everything will work out...later

[calvindog]

There's shill bidding all over his auctions. When the top five bidders only bid in his auctions it's fairly obvious. Just because you pay what you want for a card doesn't lessen the fraud or make it right. Similarly, writing with ellipses instead of using correct punctuation doesn't make your points more cogent.

[calvindog]

And even if the auction was legit, isn't the great likelihood that the reason for the high price is because a card doctor thinks the card will make its way into a PSA 8 holder?

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Similarly, writing with ellipses instead of using correct punctuation doesn't make your points more cogent.

Indeed!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And even if the auction was legit, isn't the great likelihood that the reason for the high price is because a card doctor thinks the card will make its way into a PSA 8 holder?

writing without ellipses doesn't make what you say any better as well...

so if its not shilling its card doctoring? so no sales are legit basically

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

writing without ellipses doesn't make what you say any better as well...

I think most people on the board would disagree. Just received this PM: "I can't believe you're engaging this idiot."

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think most people on the board would disagree. Just received this PM: "I can't believe you're engaging this idiot."

so most people think every sale of a card on PWCC is shilled or for a card doctor...and you posting a pm calling me a name..because name calling really helps to prove an intelligent point..nice

[calvindog]

Actually I didn't call you a name. Just quoting what someone else said. Actually three people now.

[jcmtiger]

Maybe I should put this one up for sale

Joe

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Maybe I should put this one up for sale

Joe

cant do it with PWCC because you will shill your own card or only card doctors will buy it apparently

[pawpawdiv9]

WOw Joe, now thats a nice Cobby. Huge top & bottom borders...having a Kardashian moment here.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually I didn't call you a name. Just quoting what someone else said. Actually three people now.

right quoting someone calling a name isn't the same thing...someone just called you an idiot..but hey that wasn't me...... as long as im not the one saying it i am free to post every insult someone calls you? I actually refrain from name calling even if its not me saying it...to me name calling whether from you or someone you are just quoting doesn't tend to make your argument stronger......to me its still name calling if i am quoting someone else which appears to be validating them and i don't think it helps to prove any points...

you also didn't address this post

so most people think every sale of a card on PWCC is shilled or for a card doctor...

so i guess you agree with that statement....

[3-2-count]

Joe that's my favorite green Cobby in the hobby. Every time you post it is a good day!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Joe that's my favorite green Cobby in the hobby. Every time you post it is a good day!!

+1 My heart skips a beat when I see a card like that. (still lovin' "Cy with helmet" but he is griping for a change)

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There's shill bidding all over his auctions. When the top five bidders only bid in his auctions it's fairly obvious. Just because you pay what you want for a card doesn't lessen the fraud or make it right. Similarly, writing with ellipses instead of using correct punctuation doesn't make your points more cogent.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but why would anyone shill a card that is already that high over any reported sale? VCP record is about 8k for a PSA 5.5 and less than 14k for a 6. I think even if someone were shilling this to start I think they would have let it run it's course a few thousand dollars ago.

The card is perfectly centered and the color looks great. Maybe that's why it is getting bid up so high.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And even if the auction was legit, isn't the great likelihood that the reason for the high price is because a card doctor thinks the card will make its way into a PSA 8 holder?

What's a card doctor???

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but why would anyone shill a card that is already that high over any reported sale? VCP record is about 8k for a PSA 5.5 and less than 14k for a 6. I think even if someone were shilling this to start I think they would have let it run it's course a few thousand dollars ago.

The card is perfectly centered and the color looks great. Maybe that's why it is getting bid up so high.

right the OP doesn't think that it is possible that the card can get bid up for its own merit...its a waterfront property type of card..the POP really thins out at PSA 5 and higher.....that's my argument as to why the card is being bid up....but Im an idiot to think its not being shilled...

we can give facts about what the last sales were and that its blowing them out of the water and would make no sense for it to be shilled....and talk intelligently....so far I have been provided very useful counterarguments if that entails name calling.....ill all for discussing intelligently the pros and cons.....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right the OP doesn't think that it is possible that the card can get bid up for its own merit...its a waterfront property type of card..the POP really thins out at PSA 5 and higher.....that's my argument as to why the card is being bid up....but Im an idiot to think its not being shilled...

we can give facts about what the last sales were and that its blowing them out of the water and would make no sense for it to be shilled....and talk intelligently....so far I have been provided very useful counterarguments if that entails name calling.....ill all for discussing intelligently the pros and cons.....

I agree with your train of thought on some cards hitting extraordinary levels because of what they are, similar to waterfront property. I have always been fine with paying record amounts for gorgeous cards. I think the best looking specimens do the best over time. If the Green Cobb with the huge borders, shown in this thread, went to auction it too might fetch a record price. Shown all of the time but relevant, I am sure this was a record paid for this E90-1 Young when I got it recently, but it still didn't hit my max bid. Some cards are almost mesmerizing. Those are the ones that get record prices. The PSA 8 Mantle on the bay is that nice too.....

[Kevin.Shenker]

It is amazing how long a broken record will play for.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Kevin.Shenker

It is amazing how long a broken record will play for.

?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

?

"Kevin" and I are going to have to have a chat before he gets back on the board. The phone number given didn't seem to go through..

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Maybe I should put this one up for sale

Joe

One of my favorite cards in the hobby.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

What's a card doctor???

St Louis' team physician?

Steve

[iwantitiwinit]

Thats a nice 5.5 maybe should be a six but in either case thats a heck of a lot of money and the biddings not over yet. I have a 4 and am beginning to think I could get over 4k for it.

[iwantitiwinit]

The current second place bidder only has bid activity with PWCC on 19 different items over the past 6 months. Just saying.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Thats a nice 5.5 maybe should be a six but in either case thats a heck of a lot of money and the biddings not over yet. I have a 4 and am beginning to think I could get over 4k for it.

id be interested in a centered 4..

[iwantitiwinit]

Also just noticed the Plank offered by PWCC has several of the top bidders with 80%+ bid history only with this seller. Hmmm. To me that seems strange. Just saying.

[ctownboy]

Why would someone shill a card waaaaay above a record price?

Hypothetical -- A card is worth/valued at $6,000. It gets sent to an auction where it is shilled to the stratosphere. The "auction" ends with a "record" sales price that goes into the VCP.

Six months to a year later, the same card goes to a large but different auction house. Some of the bidders with that auction house don't know the card has a "history" and only look at the VCP reports. They bid on and win the card for $10,000 which they think they got for a bargain since it last sold for $14,000.

So now, because of the shill bids to the stratosphere, a $6,000 card becomes a $10,000 dollar card and the new buyer has no clue they have been cheated.

David

[bobfreedman]

It is not the amount of times that a bidder bids with a specific seller that bothers me, it is the number of bid retractions that a bidder has on the same lot:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 277
Items bid on: 60
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 81% Help
Bid retractions: 4
Bid retractions (6 months): 12

4 bid retractions on the same lot? 12 in past six months? Why is this guy still able to bid on this lot? SMH

[Peter_Spaeth]

It doesn't mean 4 on the same lot it means 4 total in the last 30 days.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Why would someone shill a card waaaaay above a record price?

Hypothetical -- A card is worth/valued at $6,000. It gets sent to an auction where it is shilled to the stratosphere. The "auction" ends with a "record" sales price that goes into the VCP.

Six months to a year later, the same card goes to a large but different auction house. Some of the bidders with that auction house don't know the card has a "history" and only look at the VCP reports. They bid on and win the card for $10,000 which they think they got for a bargain since it last sold for $14,000.

So now, because of the shill bids to the stratosphere, a $6,000 card becomes a $10,000 dollar card and the new buyer has no clue they have been cheated.

David

People tend to do their homework on $10,000 dollar cards...one lone sale isn't all the rage on ebay..they also look at other auction houses.....also you cant shill against your yours..in your situation....the card that sold for $14,000 probably had many underbidders between $10,000-$14,000 unless all of them are shilled...seems like a loot of work..plus since its a PWCC auction you cant just cancel the sale...you will have to eat 6-14% on your win.....

How many times has that 1952 PSA 8 mantle been shilled..the same type of card grade wise.. sold at multiple auction houses for over $400k...but for some reason on ebay its all fake?

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I could see a number of bidders who only use eBay to bid on pwcc auctions but am in agreement on the bid retractions. I've used eBay since late 90's and don't think I've ever had a bid retraction. Serious question, why else would someone have that many retractions unless for shady dealings?

[bxb]

Winning bidder:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 201
Items bid on: 148
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 87% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 18

[iwantitiwinit]

18 bid retractions wtf? Is it possible this could be retracted after the auction and the card gets re-offerred to the 1st real bidder? Honestly I don't understand why someone no matter how satisfied they are with a particular seller would be willing to pay 150% of recent market value. It makes no sense.

[mechanicalman]

The winning bidder is cleaning up on all the nicely centered T206s. Same dude has bought 4 other cards I was looking at and also has a $3100 bid on the Cy Young Polar Bear. Must be nice to have significant funds and very little price sensitivity.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

The winning bidder is cleaning up on all the nicely centered T206s. Same dude has bought 4 other cards I was looking at and also has a $3100 bid on the Cy Young Polar Bear. Must be nice to have significant funds and very little price sensitivity.

If it's a real buyer. Hey real possible buyer I have some high grade nicely centered cards that I can sell you at only 125% of recent market prices.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

18 bid retractions wtf? Is it possible this could be retracted after the auction and the card gets re-offerred to the 1st real bidder? Honestly I don't understand why someone no matter how satisfied they are with a particular seller would be willing to pay 150% of recent market value. It makes no sense.

Unless the market is changing for these types of cards. Someone paid about a 100% premium on recent market value for that PSA 7 52 Mantle on Heritage. Would we all be making shill accusations if that had been a PWCC auction?

[iwantitiwinit]

I don't know, I would need to see the id's and bidding history of the people winning the Heritage auctions but that transparency doesn't exist.

[mechanicalman]

Cobb Buyer just lost out on the Plank by $100. Probably first loss of the evening, but man, what a shopping spree! Is there a "PayPal Black" for super high rollers?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Leon

"Kevin" and I are going to have to have a chat before he gets back on the board. The phone number given didn't seem to go through..

For those keeping score this is a confirmed cockroach that crawled in under the door. Same thing as always, I call them out, say lets have a chat and they go all F bomb in emails. I have my ideas on who it is but it doesn't matter anymore....Cockroaches usually get stomped on.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Cobb Buyer just lost out on the Plank by $100. Probably first loss of the evening, but man, what a shopping spree! Is there a "PayPal Black" for super high rollers?

I don't understand some ebayers. Here is the buyer of the Cobbs feedback..18 bid retractions in 6 months. Most of us have almost 0 in forever. I think I have 0-1 total in around 16 yrs

I should add that I think PWCC is a good seller and is honest. ....(and they are an advertiser). I think I have bought from them before and would again.


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 202
Items bid on: 148
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 87% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 18



.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't understand some ebayers. Here is the buyer of the Cobbs feedback..18 bid retractions in 6 months. Most of us have almost 0 in forever. I think I have 0-1 total in around 16 yrs


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 202
Items bid on: 148
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 87% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 18



.

Honestly, I don't know how to retract a bid. Is there a button? Seriously, I have no idea - never felt compelled to go back on an offer.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

The current second place bidder only has bid activity with PWCC on 19 different items over the past 6 months. Just saying.

Agreed....I would think other sellers besides PWCC has nice stuff as well. I know, speaking for myself, I have nice cards every once in awhile!

[JustinD]

The top bidders only having bids with PWCC is strange.

Bid retractions are strange.

14 years on my current account (over 3k feedback and have left over 4k) and my prior acct was from the Wild West days starting in 97'. Never retracted a bid and never stiffed a seller.

I was ripped off several times in the money order days, but never for too much. Never bought a big ticket item till paypal.

I have 23 different sellers in 30 days on my history snippet. That seems a little more normal.

I bought a lot from PWCC today, and have in the past. I almost grabbed the Delong Gehrig as well...till my son asked me to cut a check for drivers training yesterday, lol.

I'll buy from them again, but yes I admit these things certainly bother me.

Another sales pitch for sniping software. It does not solve the problem, but it helps a 1000% more than letting someone peck away at a max bid for a week and then withdrawing their bid the moment they find it.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Would love to hear from Brent at PWCC who does this for a living what he thinks about these bid retractions. Why so many for some of these bidders? What are the circumstances around using them? Just trying to get my head around justifying the legitimacy of both bidders with super high percentage of bids with one seller AND lots of retractions.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Would love to hear from Brent at PWCC who does this for a living what he thinks about these bid retractions. Why so many for some of these bidders? What are the circumstances around using them? Just trying to get my head around justifying the legitimacy of both bidders with super high percentage of bids with one seller AND lots of retractions.

I am bothered by bid retractions..i think ebay bans you if you do too many but who knows...

I admit I have retracted maybe 3 bids this year but that was when someone bid retracted a bid over my bid and then I became the 'new' high bidder...so I said goodbye my bid......I rarely bid anything close to what I want to pay until people are not allowed to bid retract because of how close the auction is....I wait till last hour...I think they ban all bid retractions a few hours before but I not sure when exactly..

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Would love to hear from Brent at PWCC who does this for a living what he thinks about these bid retractions. Why so many for some of these bidders? What are the circumstances around using them? Just trying to get my head around justifying the legitimacy of both bidders with super high percentage of bids with one seller AND lots of retractions.

We've heard from him before. He's all over it...I think.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Thats a nice 5.5 maybe should be a six but in either case thats a heck of a lot of money and the biddings not over yet. I have a 4 and am beginning to think I could get over 4k for it.

Bob- You're thinking is correct. If you look at what this card has done in the last five years on SMR, it would amaze you. Obviously, 51 Bowman, 52 Topps, and 53 Topps Mantle cards as well, but that's another story. All T206 Cobbs, you can't go wrong in my opinion....