WTB 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I get what you're saying, but the odds of that happening are slim. You would need a card like this 4.5 Mantle in the same auction with a 5-6 with some flaw. Off center, print line, etc. Then I think you would see the mantra in action. I know different auctions attract different bidders, and are hard to directly compare. But for now that's all we have. That, and the people who say they're willing to buy the card and not the holder.

Take MattyC's 52 Mantle. I don't know what he paid for it, but I bet it was a lot more than PSA 5s were selling for at that time. And if he sold it today, on here or an auction, i'm sure it would sell for more than 5s and would be close to the 6 range.

well again its talk....if he actually listed it, and there were some 5's and 6s on the same auction..we can get that experiment going....there are a lot of PWCC auctions though with many of the same cards in the same auctiion...I still see poor poor centered 6s going for more than great centered 5s.....I doubt any 9 has sold for more than a 10 in modern cards in the same pwcc auction.... for all of these buy the card not the holder its not showing in the bidding ...you would think it would happen more than a miniscule amount ..

[MattyC]

As Jesse noted, it's a very specific hypothetical that Jake is envisioning-- I agree it would be cool and interesting to see it play out in the same auction with just the right two examples. I suppose that's why it doesn't pan out that often in the same auction, because we'd need to have the right auction with the right examples. When we compare examples across different auctions or sales settings, that's when we begin to see the phenomenon more prevalent.

[pokerplyr80]

As we've all seen an identical card can vary dramatically across various auctions, especially in a PWCC auction. But all things being equal I have personally noticed centered cards going for high amounts compared to VCP averages. Even for cards that aren't breaking VCP records every other auction like the Mantles we've been discussing, or say a 55 Clemente.

I recently bought a 55 Clemente in PSA 4 and paid a premium for the grade because the card was almost dead centered and looks for the grade. Even though I was looking for a 5 or 6. And I believe I got a great deal, and would have been willing to pay more.

That being said, I'm sure we'd all love to see this experiment in action. Maybe we can get a couple of members to pick a couple high end mid grade cards, one with eye appeal, one without, send them to the same auction, and see what happens.

[pokerplyr80]

Peter - Sorry for getting so far off topic and hijacking your thread. If anyone has, or knows of a nice 51 Mantle for sale please let Peter know.

[MattyC]

Yes, I agree: apologies, Peter. Hope you find the one you want soon.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yes, I agree: apologies, Peter. Hope you find the one you want soon.

Not at all, discussion always welcome.

Matt, print line bother you in the one I posted?

[pokerplyr80]

Peter, from your initial post I would assume that the print line would bother you, and that you will end up wanting to upgrade eventually. I would say if you can get it for a price that it won't be difficult to resell for what you're in it then go for it. If you're planning to keep long term I would wait for one that you'll be happy with.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not at all, discussion always welcome.

Matt, print line bother you in the one I posted?

Actually, crazy as it sounds-- I think the rare clarity of image/registration and the centering kind of overshadow that flaw of the single vertical line. At that grade level we know and expect there will be some flaw, and I have to say that line is serendipitously placed. For average money for its grade, hypothetically, I would say that is an above average looking card for its grade. One thing about the 51B that matters even more to me than centering is that registration/focus. Perhaps 1 in 10 or way less than that is as crispy clear as that card.

The alternative flaw I would expect would be a small crease/wrinkle such as in the Memory Lane 4, and the line is basically the same kind of thing. Bottom line, I would not mind looking at that card every evening at my desk, to unwind. The eye is just so drawn away from the area of the card where its flaw is.

One thing we all tend to forget is that in this age of scans, a scan can really overplay a card's flaws. In hand, it can be a whole different story. One thing that works for me is to really pay attention to my initial first impression, my knee-jerk reaction, to a card, and listen to that impulse. When we first lay eyes on a card we have a gut instinct of, "nice card," or not. Gotta say, for me, that one got the "nice card" instinct at first sight. Afterwards, we can-- and will-- pick a card apart, and there will always be stuff for us to find if it's not a gem mint card (and even then, LOL). But there's a purity and truth to our first instinct as to whether it's nice or not. Hope that babbling helps, but it's Sunday and I'll rap cards ad nauseum to stave off the work week!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Actually, crazy as it sounds-- I think the rare clarity of image/registration and the centering kind of overshadow that flaw of the single vertical line. At that grade level we know and expect there will be some flaw, and I have to say that line is serendipitously placed. For average money for its grade, hypothetically, I would say that is an above average looking card for its grade. One thing about the 51B that matters even more to me than centering is that registration/focus. Perhaps 1 in 10 or way less than that is as crispy clear as that card.

The alternative flaw I would expect would be a small crease/wrinkle such as in the Memory Lane 4, and the line is basically the same kind of thing. Bottom line, I would not mind looking at that card every evening at my desk, to unwind.

One thing we all tend to forget is that in this age of scans, a scan can really overplay a card's flaws. In hand, it can be a whole different story. One thing that works for me is to really pay attention to my initial first impression, my knee-jerk reaction, to a card, and listen to that impulse. When we first lay eyes on a card we have a gut instinct of, "nice card," or not. Gotta say, for me, that one got the "nice card" instinct at first sight. Afterwards, we can-- and will-- pick a card apart, and there will always be stuff for us to find if it's not a gem mint card (and even then, LOL). But there's a purity and truth to our first instinct as to whether it's nice or not. Hope that babbling helps, but it's Sunday and I'll rap cards ad nauseum to stave off the work week!

Matt that was my thinking too. The registration and color at least per the scan are pretty phenomenal and the centering well above average. The perfect can be the enemy of the good sometimes.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

well again its talk....if he actually listed it, and there were some 5's and 6s on the same auction..we can get that experiment going....there are a lot of PWCC auctions though with many of the same cards in the same auctiion...I still see poor poor centered 6s going for more than great centered 5s.....I doubt any 9 has sold for more than a 10 in modern cards in the same pwcc auction.... for all of these buy the card not the holder its not showing in the bidding ...you would think it would happen more than a miniscule amount ..

Well the PSA 4 and PSA 5 from the Memory Lane ended up selling for the same price. That's probably as close to this experiment as we can get without setting it up ourselves. It shows that at least one collector was willing to buy the card and not the holder.

[1952boyntoncollector]

yeah was close..

there was a 1952 jackie robinson psa 5 centered that sold for 2600 on ebay the other day..that range is psa 6 as well.....whoever those buyers are can say 'buy the card not the holder' they get the pass to do that......

[MattyC]

The 52 Mays-- an astounding 7.5 example-- also shattered historical records, I believe selling for well more than what the last 8 commanded. Another noteworthy sale.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The 52 Mays-- an astounding 7.5 example-- also shattered historical records, I believe selling for well more than what the last 8 commanded. Another noteworthy sale.

i really never into 7.5s...they are like red headed step children.....half grades usually sell for much closer to the base grade....plus registry people a lot of times like the same grades for the sets so .5s get in the way for them

id rather get a 7 for much cheaper ..or pay big money for a 8...just seems like a waste to spend a lot for 8

i hope i am wrong on 7.5s...cause i do have a 1954 psa 7.5 Banks for sale..

[MattyC]

Well, I just bought a 7.5 recently that blows away all but one 8 I could find, and hangs with many of the 9s I saw on VCP and completed eBay sales-- actually besting many of the 9s in the centering and color department. I chose it over a few 8s that were available to me, as to me it was the better card. I'd also say that I have seen MANY half grade cards sell for much closer to the upper grade than the lower-- all depends on the card. If one buys a high end half grade, likely it will sell closer to the upper grade, I believe.

I'd offer that cards are each unique, discrete pieces, and need to be evaluated as such. Even with the TPGs efforts to herd cards into neat boxes, all cards in the same grade are simply not the same card, and some will not behave according to the VCP pricing grid. I couldn't generalize against an entire specific grade, and it seems whoever landed the Mays 7.5, along with the lucky new eventual owner of that nice Banks 7.5 RC, feels likewise