PSA never ceases to amaze me

[tbob]

15 years I bought a sealed 1962 Topps baseball card pack 5 cent variety. Beautiful wrapper and tightly sealed. This year at the National I dropped the pack off at the PSA booth because SGC doesn't grade packs. I paid the cost of special grading and return shipping and waited to receive it. All through August, all through September, almost all through October and finally the pack made it back jammed in a mylar holder which said "altered", no explanation of what, how, etc. I am assuming that it had to be that they tought the pack had been opened and resealed (I guess), but the customer service was horrible and the lack of any explanation is inexcusable.
Not a happy camper. Maybe the pack had been resealed (?) I have heard of things like that happening but other than the stick of gum being shattered while at PSA or in transit, it is a beautiful pack.
I don't know if anyone else has had this kind of treatment with their packs and sorry for the rant
I guess I may go ahead and open the pack, hope for some beautiful cards, oh well...

[bobbyw8469]

Very odd. If you open it, post scans!

[Cardboard Junkie]

I feel your pain. I would like to see scans please front and back? And if you open, it would be cool to make a bust out video? Please. Dave.

[tbob]

Snapped a couple of pics with my cell phone, hope they show up ok.

[sbfinley]

I'm not a pack guy, but from what I understand Steve Hart from BBCE does all of the pack grading for PSA now. They will hold every pack sub they receive for a month or two then ship them to Steve to grade out in one quick blast. If that is the case he probably keeps remarks to a minimum due to volume. The guys over on the CU forums are pretty knowledgeable when it comes to vintage packs and could probably help you out more.

[conor912]

I would think that by PSA keeping the submission fee that the sumittor would be entitled to at least a one sentance description as to why their item was rejected.

[CaramelMan]

Talk about a conflict of interest....

The guy Steve is the head pack grader, but he sells the most wax in the country through his own store..

How can PSA allow this? I thought when they become a grader, they have to sell their entire collections (or not be an auction house) which he essentially is..

Never liked this set up and it seems like a MAJOR conflict of interest...

[bobbyw8469]

Never liked this set up and it seems like a MAJOR conflict of interest...

+1

[pepis]

Originally Posted by tbob

Snapped a couple of pics with my cell phone, hope they show up ok.

Well tbob,
the tear in the upper right corner of the pack is clear indication that at some
point the pack that this wrapper belonged to originally was opened! judging
by the little bit i can see of the 2 bottom corners, both have been refolded,
my take on this pack is not a resealed job, BUT a reconstruction job meaning,
somebody obtained a loose wrapper some cards and a piece of gum put it
together with enough appearance to convince a naive buyer,
happens every week now a days.

[1880nonsports]

Originally Posted by pepis

Well tbob,
the tear in the upper right corner of the pack is clear indication that at some
point the pack that this wrapper belonged to originally was opened! judging
by the little bit i can see of the 2 bottom corners, both have been refolded,
my take on this pack is not a resealed job, BUT a reconstruction job meaning,
somebody obtained a loose wrapper some cards and a piece of gum put it
together with enough appearance to convince a naive buyer,
happens every week now a days.

seems pretty obvious once you mention it..........

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Talk about a conflict of interest....

The guy Steve is the head pack grader, but he sells the most wax in the country through his own store..

How can PSA allow this? I thought when they become a grader, they have to sell their entire collections (or not be an auction house) which he essentially is..

Never liked this set up and it seems like a MAJOR conflict of interest...

Just to make everyone aware, Steve DOES NOT grade any packs. PSA ships the packs to Steve and Steve ONLY authenticates them. He ships back to PSA and PSA assigns a grade to them.

I agree the logistics is not great but Steve and his team are the foremost experts on un-opened material.

Mark

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Talk about a conflict of interest....

The guy Steve is the head pack grader, but he sells the most wax in the country through his own store..

How can PSA allow this? I thought when they become a grader, they have to sell their entire collections (or not be an auction house) which he essentially is..

Never liked this set up and it seems like a MAJOR conflict of interest...

While this certainly can be a conflict of interest, I believe you really need to look at the specifics of Steve's involvement. I seriously doubt Steve would even consider giving up his business just to authentic packs for PSA. Also, I believe Steve does not actually grade the packs, rather he only states whether the pack is authentic/unaltered or bad. In addition, Steve is widely considered to be one of the most knowledgable people in the hobby regarding unopened material. Without Steve doing the authenticating, I doubt many would support PSA's grading of the packs and there would be even more questions on what is/is not good that has been graded. Steve has a huge following of collectors that belief him to have extremely high morals. Simply looking at the number of raw packs, that are easily sequenced like 86 fleer basketball, that people have reported pulling superstar from speaks to his integrity. This is not to say that Steve has not made mistakes, but I know I would trust his judgement over most other people without hesitation regardless of any possible conflict of interest.

For full disclosure, I don't have any graded packs in my collection and I don't think I have ever bought something from Steve.

DJ

[lsutigers1973]

I will repeat it, Steve does not grade packs. He authenticates them as original and unopened. PSA's minions grade the packs.

Also, as a long time customer of Steve's, I can say with confidence that there is zero conflict of interest as his integrity is greater than the Pope's. I have even seen him eat the cost of a few boxes that were in the $1500+ range because the cards inside the packs were ruined by gum. No one else in this industry would do that. All dealers would tell you it's a gamble when opening old packs.

[RobertGT]

Sorry that it appears you bought a resealed pack. I agree you should just open it and see what condition those cards are in. If they are below EXMT then you definitely have a homemade pack. Out the seller's name if that is the case?

In one case I read about on the CU forums a while back, a guy posted scans of the cards he pulled from a 1978 topps pack. One card had writing on the back! Hopefully you will fare better. Good luck.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

Just to make everyone aware, Steve DOES NOT grade any packs. PSA ships the packs to Steve and Steve ONLY authenticates them. He ships back to PSA and PSA assigns a grade to them.

I agree the logistics is not great but Steve and his team are the foremost experts on un-opened material.

Mark

Mark,

Yes, that is true, he does not grade packs, he only authenticates them. However, it is, at least to me, still a conflict of interest if he is authenticating his own packs for PSA to grade.

I've heard nothing but good things about Steve and I'm sure he is a man of high integrity, but the door is open for fraud to occur if no one is checking him. There have been many dealers in our hobby with what we perceived at one time as having high integrity and look where they are now.

Does PSA allow other dealers to authenticate their own cards and PSA only assign a number grade to them, or does PSA do both the authenticating and grading? I'm pretty sure they authenticate and grade, no matter the submitter. I'm not sure why packs should be any different.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Edited to add: To put it another way, if I sent PSA/DNA an autographed baseball that was already authenticated through JSA and I only wanted them to grade it, would they do that or do you think hey would want to re-authenticate it as well? Sure they would. Again, not sure why packs are any different and why Steve gets to authenticate his own stuff for grading.

[Dan Carson]

Originally Posted by tbob

15 years I bought a sealed 1962 Topps baseball card pack 5 cent variety. Beautiful wrapper and tightly sealed. This year at the National I dropped the pack off at the PSA booth because SGC doesn't grade packs. I paid the cost of special grading and return shipping and waited to receive it. All through August, all through September, almost all through October and finally the pack made it back jammed in a mylar holder which said "altered", no explanation of what, how, etc. I am assuming that it had to be that they tought the pack had been opened and resealed (I guess), but the customer service was horrible and the lack of any explanation is inexcusable.
Not a happy camper. Maybe the pack had been resealed (?) I have heard of things like that happening but other than the stick of gum being shattered while at PSA or in transit, it is a beautiful pack.
I don't know if anyone else has had this kind of treatment with their packs and sorry for the rant
I guess I may go ahead and open the pack, hope for some beautiful cards, oh well...

Then why did you use them Bob???

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by lsutigers1973

I will repeat it, Steve does not grade packs. He authenticates them as original and unopened. PSA's minions grade the packs.

Also, as a long time customer of Steve's, I can say with confidence that there is zero conflict of interest as his [b] integrity is greater than the Pope's.[\b] I have even seen him eat the cost of a few boxes that were in the $1500+ range because the cards inside the packs were ruined by gum. No one else in this industry would do that. All dealers would tell you it's a gamble when opening old packs.

Don't know if your are the best judge of integrity as you were kicked off the CU boards for scamming people....you still do the silver coin scam on eBay also?

[bobbyw8469]

Don't know if your are the best judge of integrity as you were kicked off the CU boards for scamming people....you still do the silver coin scam on eBay also?

+1. Don't you worry though. His alt/troll account is alive and kicking on the PSA board. The whole thing is quite comical/pathetic to me.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by conor912

I would think that by PSA keeping the submission fee that the sumittor would be entitled to at least a one sentance description as to why their item was rejected.

Exactly. Thanks Conor, that is my point. I'm not a pack guy so I do not possess the greatest ability to understand exactly what "altered" means so it would have been the right thing to do to tell how it is supposed to be altered.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Dan Carson

Then why did you use them Bob???

Dan- I used them because 1) SGC doesn't grade packs; 2) I wasn't aware I would receive such shoddy customer service from PSA until after I was the recipient of the treatment and 3) I was leary about using GAI, which grades packs, because their reputation has suffered in the last 5-6 years.
Bob

[tbob]

Originally Posted by pepis

Well tbob,
the tear in the upper right corner of the pack is clear indication that at some
point the pack that this wrapper belonged to originally was opened! judging
by the little bit i can see of the 2 bottom corners, both have been refolded,
my take on this pack is not a resealed job, BUT a reconstruction job meaning,
somebody obtained a loose wrapper some cards and a piece of gum put it
together with enough appearance to convince a naive buyer,
happens every week now a days.

Pepis- you may be right but the tear you describe is actually a very, very tiny scuff at the very tip of the card edge rather than a tear, it looks like a friction scuff, not a tiny tear, and to be honest I do not remember it being there when it was submitted at National. I don't have your expertise on wrappers and packs but I can't see any refolding on the bottom corners when I examine it. When the pack was submitted at National, the slab of gum was solid and you could feel it was intact. When the pack arrived, the gum was shattered in to a million pieces.
I know the gum is 50+ years old but it is odd it could have been mailed to me (yes I bought it on ebay many years ago) and I could have had it for 15 years after that and the gum was solid but upon receipt from PSA it is hammered. Kind of odd...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by tbob

Dan- I used them because 1) SGC doesn't grade packs; 2) I wasn't aware I would receive such shoddy customer service from PSA until after I was the recipient of the treatment and 3) I was leary about using GAI, which grades packs, because their reputation has suffered in the last 5-6 years.
Bob

Please do not use GAI or as the sleeze balls call themselves now Global Authority. If you even get your item(s) back from them you would be really lucky.

I sent in several cards about a year and a half ago. After 4 months I sent several emails and calls with no response I finally got lucky and got Damian's home #. After several more calls I finally got them to actually look at my cards and they posted the grades and told me they would be slabbed and sent back to me in a few days. All but one card received a fair grade. I emailed back and asked if I paid them again if they would look at the card in dispute again. The only response I got was all the grades they had already given my other cards was changed to all cards altered by reglossing. Then it took me almost 2 more months to get my cards back in the same penny sleeves they were sent to them in. Plus I was charged for there grading service. They are scammers now stay away, far away.