Babe Ruth?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

The deal isn't done by a long shot.

I've been on the sidelines reading the name-calling and saving the screenshots for the day when I will address particular comments posted by a few members of Net54.

its been a couple more weeks, is this day ever going to roll around?

[thetruthisoutthere]

I will be posting as soon as things are back to normal here.

Richard, Shelly, Leon and Danny are already aware that my girlfriend's twenty-eight-year-old son passed away on Thursday night. There are no words to describe the loss.

[gnaz01]

Chris, truly sorry for the loss. You are right, no words can describe that feeling.

[Leon]

While I think this whole debacle could have been handled better I will vouch for Chris sending me a message a few days ago concerning the death in the family. A very young person passing away is tragic. Condolences to Chris, family and friends.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I will be posting as soon as things are back to normal here.

Richard, Shelly, Leon and Danny are already aware that my girlfriend's twenty-eight-year-old son passed away on Thursday night. There are no words to describe the loss.

Sorry to hear that Chris.

[earlywynnfan]

My sympathies, Chris. Take care of your family. We can bicker about the much-less-important stuff later.

Ken

[7nohitter]

Chris,
Very sorry to hear....family trumps an autograph discussion any day.
Priorities people...

Andrew

[Bestdj777]

My condolences Chris. I couldn't imagine what you are going through.

[mschwade]

Prayers out to you and your girlfriend, Christopher, times like these remind everyone about the bigger picture.

[chaddurbin]

prayers to you and your loved ones chris...

[slidekellyslide]

Condolences Chris...very sorry for your loss...this stuff is small potatoes compared to real life.

[Runscott]

My sympathies also, Chris.

[GrayGhost]

Chris, my sincere condolences to you and your GF on this horrible thing. Means so much more than whether an autograph is real or not...God Bless.

[jcmtiger]

I don't really collect autographs, although I have a few that were signed at shows. So, I know they are authenticate. But these autograph fights are kinda crazy. It seems we have at least 4-5 experts on the board and they pretty much disagree on most autographs. I don't really know the complete name, but THETRUTHISOUTHERE or whatever the name is seems to be the expert of all experts according to his posts. So, he should be very wealthy authenticating autographs throughout the hobby. So, is he the guy to get for authentIcating my autographs? i am not being a smart ass, just want to know. I do have a couple of autographs that I thought about sending to PSA, but decided not to. A large print signed by Ali and Spinks in the 1980's. And a baseball signed by Tiger Woods in 1996. Both signed in person. But I was worried that they would come back not real. Then What? I did sell some autographs to someone on the board and I was satisfied with the results. He is one of the 4-5 experts on the board. The autographs were items I bought in the 1980's of early 1930's ballplayers. .


Joe

Joe

[travrosty]

psa will either say good or bad, so its a 50 percent chance. we have seen them give the thumbs up to the bad before, and the thumbs down to the good before, so send them money if you have money to spare, or keep your money. if you know it's good, that is good enough.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I don't really collect autographs, although I have a few that were signed at shows. So, I know they are authenticate. But these autograph fights are kinda crazy. It seems we have at least 4-5 experts on the board and they pretty much disagree on most autographs. I don't really know the complete name, but THETRUTHISOUTHERE or whatever the name is seems to be the expert of all experts according to his posts. So, he should be very wealthy authenticating autographs throughout the hobby. So, is he the guy to get for authentIcating my autographs? i am not being a smart ass, just want to know. I do have a couple of autographs that I thought about sending to PSA, but decided not to. A large print signed by Ali and Spinks in the 1980's. And a baseball signed by Tiger Woods in 1996. Both signed in person. But I was worried that they would come back not real. Then What? I did sell some autographs to someone on the board and I was satisfied with the results. He is one of the 4-5 experts on the board. The autographs were items I bought in the 1980's of early 1930's ballplayers. .


Joe

Joe

Chris(thetruthisouthere) is the person we are referring to that had a recent death in the family.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I wanted to sincerely "Thank you" for your expressions of condolences.

My girlfriend's son leaves behind a three-year old daughter which is even more heart-breaking. My girlfriend's family, friends and myself are there for her and her granddaughter.

I cannot begin to imagine the pain of losing a son or daughter. I lost my mom twenty years ago and I still haven't gotten over it.

Again, I want to "Thank" those of you who posted messages of condolence. It really is very much appreciated.

[earlywynnfan]

Please take care of that little girl. As a teacher, I can assure you she needs a father figure in her life. Especially one who demonstrates that we all need to stand up and do the right thing every chance we get.

Ken

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Please take care of that little girl. As a teacher, I can assure you she needs a father figure in her life. Especially one who demonstrates that we all need to stand up and do the right thing every chance we get.

Ken

+1. So very true.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Please take care of that little girl. As a teacher, I can assure you she needs a father figure in her life. Especially one who demonstrates that we all need to stand up and do the right thing every chance we get.

Ken

Chris,

As a father of a 10 year old boy, please do what is possible to comfort this young girl. She may not fully understand what is going on now, but when she grows up, she WILL remember the times you have spent with her and consoled her. Thanks for your leadership here. The "foolishness" that goes on here (I say that light-heatedly) pales in comparison to real life situations.

Greg

[jgmp123]

Some additional info on a "tell" and the ticket.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=19877#more-19877

[travrosty]

so why is it easy for a guy to show some details about a babe ruth sig but so impossible for others? that wasn't so hard.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Hey Chris, I'm so saddened for your loss, loss is never easy. Especially for someone who has so much of their life left to live. I recently had a loss of an old high school friend a week ago, and I'm 26 and it's hard to fathom, and you ask yourself why.

I appreciate all you do here, and I help you and your gf's family find happiness and stay strong with your faith.

God Bless

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by travrosty

so why is it easy for a guy to show some details about a babe ruth sig but so impossible for others? that wasn't so hard.

Travis,

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun here and reading too much into this, but maybe Chris and Nash have been discussing the "Babe Ruth" signed 700th HR ticket.
It dawned on me that Chris might not have revealed the "tells" because of a pre-existing promise to Nash since he had planned on writing about it in his HOS.

Food for thought...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Travis,

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun here and reading too much into this, but maybe Chris and Nash have been discussing the "Babe Ruth" signed 700th HR ticket.
It dawned on me that Chris might not have revealed the "tells" because of a pre-existing promise to Nash since he had planned on writing about it in his HOS.

Food for thought...

You are going to get Chris banned from Heritage if they think he is working with Nash .
Chris and Nash do not discuss anything.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

You are going to get Chris banned from Heritage if they think he is working with Nash .
Chris and Nash do not discuss anything.

Oh well, never mind then. Carry on...

[David Atkatz]

The other Ruth signature that Chris presented, allegedly by the "Michigan forger," shows none of Nash's three "tells." They could not be what Chris had in mind.

in another recent HoS column, Nash has presented two "tells" for mid-thirties, rushed, "ballpark" Gehrig signatures. It is a nice piece of work. But I have shown a genuine, correct-period Gehrig which exhibits one of the two. Tells are a guide--they are not ironclad.

Again, to his credit, Nash has presented an hypothesis, which can be tested. In this case I believe he is wrong.

it does not appear to me that the "a" in the ticket signature is "written backwards."

Ruth always doublebacked on the final stroke of the "h." This slight return stroke usually is horizontal, and goes over the left-to-right stroke. Usually, but not always. Nash's "arrowhead formation" appears occasionally in genuine Ruth signatures.

That leaves the short t-cross-stroke. Enough to disqualify the signature? I don't think so.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Hey Chris, I'm so saddened for your loss, loss is never easy. Especially for someone who has so much of their life left to live. I recently had a loss of an old high school friend a week ago, and I'm 26 and it's hard to fathom, and you ask yourself why.

I appreciate all you do here, and I help you and your gf's family find happiness and stay strong with your faith.

God Bless

Thank you, Brent. Very much appreciated.

I also want to "Thank" those who set private messages of condolence and another "Thank you" to those Net54 members who publicly expressed their sympathy. Thank you.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

The other Ruth signature that Chris presented, allegedly by the "Michigan forger," shows none of Nash's three "tells." They could not be what Chris had in mind.

This is really killing me.

Not picking on you David, and I know you hate talking about this ball, but since you and I are in total disagreement as to its authenticity, it's a good example to discuss. In your opinion, does this Ruth signature demonstrate any of Nash's 3 tells?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Hey Chris, I'm so saddened for your loss, loss is never easy. Especially for someone who has so much of their life left to live. I recently had a loss of an old high school friend a week ago, and I'm 26 and it's hard to fathom, and you ask yourself why.

I appreciate all you do here, and I help you and your gf's family find happiness and stay strong with your faith.

God Bless

Thank you, Brent. I appreciate it.

I again wanted to thank those who posted both public messages of condolence and private messages of condolence.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

You are going to get Chris banned from Heritage if they think he is working with Nash .
Chris and Nash do not discuss anything.

Richard is correct.

I have never communicated with Mr. Peter Nash or Mr. Ron Keurajian.

According to Mr. Peter Nash's website, he contacted Huggins & Scott on April 6, 2013.

I posted my Babe Ruth Ticket thread on March 31, 2013. I started the thread a few hours after I read about the auction on the Sports Collectors Daily website.

[thetruthisoutthere]

[QUOTE=rscheck;1123692]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

The deal isn't done by a long shot.

Contra Mr. Williams contra. The deal is done, and the check is cashed. To quote someone MUCH smarter than me, "you are a strange sad little man". You sit in your moms basement with your pasty white skin and you throw out comments about things you know nothing about (and yes Mr Williams, you knew NOTHING about this particular ticket). I am not sorry I am one of 9,833,360 people (go ahead look it up) who live in Michigan, one of whom would appear to be some forger you seem to know a great deal about (I am not him). I am not sorry, through my dad, I was fortunate enough to meet a woman that was kind. I realize in the world you live in these two completely unrelated events could never take place. The reality is the story I told is true. There are still people out there that believe in honor and integrity and if I thought for a moment this ticket/autograph wasn't real I would have pulled it from the auction myself. You see mr Williams not everyone is out there just to make a nickel (or in this case 214,000 of them). You offered up no proof, or evidence about anything you ELUDED to. Heritage never had the ticket in their possession prior to its sale, this other grading company that you mentioned never had the ticket in their possession to grade it before it went to H&S. These are facts.indisputable, hand on the Bible in court, facts. I offered to speak to you , you left ONE message and didn't have the decency to leave your phone number. I came on the forum and answered ALL questions that were asked and yet you continue to sit in your moms basement and pass judgement on me, a man you have never met. You also declined to pass along "information" that you supposedly had. If that's the kind of hobby you are involved in I will stick to running where people say good morning when they see each other and offer advise (okay sometimes its the wrong advise but their heart is in the right place).

Having said all of that I now feel better.

Thank you,

Thank you, Rscheck.

Your comment is very telling.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I'm curious why no one questioned the consignors admittance that he has no problem recalling every step of the provenance of that Babe Ruth signed ticket that was gifted to him back in 1992, but yet he (Rscheck) is unable to remember her name.

Is anyone else puzzled by that?

[rscheck]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I'm curious why no one questioned the consignors admittance that he has no problem recalling every step of the provenance of that Babe Ruth signed ticket that was gifted to him back in 1992, but yet he (Rscheck) is unable to remember her name.

Is anyone else puzzled by that?

Knowing I was given a gift vs remembering a name from 21 years ago...really? I remember I got a Chutes away for Hanukkah in 1977 but I cant remember the name of my second grade teacher....I guess I didn't go to second grade.

Chris while I find all this back and forth amusing I am truly sorry for your loss!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I'm curious why no one questioned the consignors admittance that he has no problem recalling every step of the provenance of that Babe Ruth signed ticket that was gifted to him back in 1992, but yet he (Rscheck) is unable to remember her name.

Is anyone else puzzled by that?

No...this should be about the autograph only. Maybe he forgets his anniversary too? Provenance is hearsay, this is about the autograph. We know that you think it's bad, but tell us why. Is the "a" written backwards? Is the cross in the "t" too short?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Thank you, Rscheck.

Your comment is very telling.

He sounds like a wonderful guy. I'm surprised he didn't donate the ticket to charity.

Ahhh, what a beautiful Tuesday morning.

[mr2686]

I think I've understood everything on this thread except the part right after I'm curious what the members here think of this Babe Ruth?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No...this should be about the autograph only. Maybe he forgets his anniversary too? Provenance is hearsay, this is about the autograph. We know that you think it's bad, but tell us why. Is the "a" written backwards? Is the cross in the "t" too short?

i would have to agree, it's back to autographs and if this one stinks, then people should say why if they claim to know.

[slidekellyslide]

The most frustrating thing about this thread is that Chris keeps going back to the provenance and is not dealing with what he thinks is wrong with the autograph itself. And showing a comparison to an Eddie Gaedel signature without saying a word about either one is not addressing anything. He's very open about discussing the provenance, but tight lipped about the signature. Why?

[shelly]

Open a backward a spaceing and the h trailing. Just a few things that might make you think that it is not authentic. There are to many things wrong to make me believe.
Hauls of Shame voiced concerns about the Ruth ticket to Huggins & Scott via Twitter on April 6 and again via email to Huggins VP Josh Wulken on April 10. When informed that we had spoken with an expert and well-known author who had indicated that he could not authenticate the Ruth ticket Wulken responded, “I have no idea who that is and everybody has opinions.
If you dont know who he is talking about go out and buy the newest book on forgeries.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The most frustrating thing about this thread is that Chris keeps going back to the provenance and is not dealing with what he thinks is wrong with the autograph itself. And showing a comparison to an Eddie Gaedel signature without saying a word about either one is not addressing anything. He's very open about discussing the provenance, but tight lipped about the signature. Why?

Yeah, I didn't get the Gaedel comparison.

My thinking on Ruth signatures, and it applies to this one: Any authentic Ruth-signed item has been around for 50+ years. Probably 50% (at least) of Ruth signatures on the market are forgeries, and many of those have LOAs. Everyone knows that if you want to sell a Ruth-signed item, it has to pass a TPA. So, if a Ruth-signed item shows up on the market with a new LOA, you have to ask why? At that point, all you have to go on is the provenance and the item itself. The ticket 'could' be good. The provenance is very shaky. If we manage to get over the ticket and the provenance, the autograph still has to pass.

This isn't about 'prove it is bad'. If it smells at all, and it's a 'Ruth', we generally discuss it in this forum, but...

There were much better ways for Chris to present his opinion - I won't speculate as to why he chose this route, but it was unfair to the consignor and the auction house.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yeah, I didn't get the Gaedel comparison.

My thinking on Ruth signatures, and it applies to this one: Any authentic Ruth-signed item has been around for 50+ years. Probably 50% (at least) of Ruth signatures on the market are forgeries, and many of those have LOAs. Everyone knows that if you want to sell a Ruth-signed item, it has to pass a TPA. So, if a Ruth-signed item shows up on the market with a new LOA, you have to ask why? At that point, all you have to go on is the provenance and the item itself. The ticket 'could' be good. The provenance is very shaky. If we manage to get over the ticket and the provenance, the autograph still has to pass.

This isn't about 'prove it is bad'. If it smells at all, and it's a 'Ruth', we generally discuss it in this forum, but...

There were much better ways for Chris to present his opinion - I won't speculate as to why he chose this route, but it was unfair to the consignor and the auction house.

Scott, just to give you a hint. Look at the bad Gadel, open a. Look at the good one closed. Look at the spaceing compare the bad one to the Ruth.
Just saying.

[slidekellyslide]

There are at least 4 open "a" Ruth signatures in the current REA auction.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

There are at least 4 open "a" Ruth signatures in the current REA auction.

And?

[earlywynnfan]

I'm confused; there are two long, painful threads going on right now. One is obsessing about the chain of provenance before we even want to talk about the auto.

The other doesn't have a line of provenance -- in fact, there is some serious provenance saying the piece cannot be legit -- and people are howling to disregard the provenance, just look at the auto.

Which is it??

Ken

[travrosty]

it's disfunctional threads and discussions.

snit54 instead of taking a look at autographs and provenance from a logical perspective and sharing information to get to the bottom of things.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by shelly

Scott, just to give you a hint. Look at the bad Gadel, open a. Look at the good one closed. Look at the spaceing compare the bad one to the Ruth.
Just saying.

I saw that. No matter - as I said when Chris first posted the Gaedel images, the two Gaedels looked nothing alike; the two Ruths looked at least similar. In my opinion - a different forger.

As David stated, tells are not ironclad - I'm sure people who normally close their a's have left a few open.

[shelly]

Scott, Chris feels that bad Gudel is from the same person that did the Ruth ticket. You can make up your own mind. He was trying to show the open a on the babe and the open a on the other.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

There are at least 4 open "a" Ruth signatures in the current REA auction.

9 Ruth signatures have been withdrawn from REA

[shelly]

I would be willing to bet there might be a few more.