Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Read description, and zoom in on the spine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33466955753...oAAOSwMW5jnibR

He pulled it, which is good.

[bocca001]

Someone posted this maroon 49ers miner pennant on facebook a few months ago and I've been hunting it down ever since. It arrived today, from Canada. Glad to add it to the group. It's the first maroon version I have ever seen.

[thetahat]

Beautiful Niner pennants. One of the coolest pennants in any sport. Especially nice to get it with bold graphics.

[661fish]

I know this is a waste of time but does anyone have the Diamond of Elves pennant for sale that is clean? I can only try.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

He pulled it, which is good.

Would you say the body of the pennant was “good”?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by 661fish

I know this is a waste of time but does anyone have the Diamond of Elves pennant for sale that is clean? I can only try.

I have two, one is a royal blue and the other is burgundy. Both near mint with all four tassels. Unfortunately I’m more in the “trading” market right now, not really anxious to sell. I love STL Browns pennants, am looking for more color variations of the “grommet” pennants with the awesome Apotheisis of Saint Louis logo.

I’d be heavily in the market for an oversized 1910s era Browns, a blue 1944 AL Champs, and a full-size Keezer (same graphics as the 3/4 size in the pic).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Would you say the body of the pennant was “good”?

It’s actually back up, but without the description. The seller seems like a decent guy. It just looks very new to me.

[thetahat]

I only have about 1-1/2 tubs of football pennants, but I have five of these. I noticed that there appears to be two different screens, not just differences in sharpness. Look at the tallest mountain. … One of these is odd in that the logo is mostly gold (as is the football outline) and the tassels are very thin.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Someone posted this maroon 49ers miner pennant on facebook a few months ago and I've been hunting it down ever since. It arrived today, from Canada. Glad to add it to the group. It's the first maroon version I have ever seen.

Marc, take a close look at the rear stitching on the second one from the bottom in your pic. Am I right that this is different than the others, almost like a double stitch?

That pennant and two of mine are like that, they also have graphics that are less sharp. You can even see it in the letters. I would think knock-off … except that one guy sold off a bunch of 3/4 size pennants that were similar and he bought them all in an old Trench box. More mysteries.

On another note, when I first used eBay there were a TON of mint 3/4 Trench football from the mid 1960s. Like there was a huge find somewhere. Now you never see them.

[bocca001]

Hey Greg- that's a nice assortment, and I never noticed the different graphics related to the mountain. I will say that some seem much nicer (amount of color, number of different colors) than others.

It looks like your bottom copy is also maroon. Nice. I still need to pick up a red one with white letters. I've seen a number of those over the years and always tell myself that I'll get one later. But now they seem less common.

The pennant you asked about (with the gray spine) does have something like double stitching on the back.

I have one 3/4 size, and it has that mostly yellow tint (see attached).

I've also seen the yellow tint on green felt. Can't say that I particularly like the color combination, but I'd probably buy it if I saw it

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

It’s actually back up, but without the description. The seller seems like a decent guy. It just looks very new to me.

Total reproduction. Paint is all wrong, and as fake as they come.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

I only have about 1-1/2 tubs of football pennants, but I have five of these. I noticed that there appears to be two different screens, not just differences in sharpness. Look at the tallest mountain. … One of these is odd in that the logo is mostly gold (as is the football outline) and the tassels are very thin.

The trees are quite different, too.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Total reproduction. Paint is all wrong, and as fake as they come.

Yep and it has the closed off spine so that a dowel can’t be used.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The trees are quite different, too.

Yes! I see that now.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Hey Greg- that's a nice assortment, and I never noticed the different graphics related to the mountain. I will say that some seem much nicer (amount of color, number of different colors) than others.

It looks like your bottom copy is also maroon. Nice. I still need to pick up a red one with white letters. I've seen a number of those over the years and always tell myself that I'll get one later. But now they seem less common.

The pennant you asked about (with the gray spine) does have something like double stitching on the back.

I have one 3/4 size, and it has that mostly yellow tint (see attached).

I've also seen the yellow tint on green felt. Can't say that I particularly like the color combination, but I'd probably buy it if I saw it

Mine are all different shades of red. Good movie title … 5 Shades of Red. Rated G.

The bottom is just slightly deeper, like crimson.

[ooo-ribay]

Question for Kyle:

With all the subtle variations we’ve been seeing, how often do you think the pennant makers would have had to “change out” their screens? I think Trench made thousands of the left handed batter and bridge for the Giants. I wonder how many they could get out of one screen…

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Question for Kyle:

With all the subtle variations we’ve been seeing, how often do you think the pennant makers would have had to “change out” their screens? I think Trench made thousands of the left handed batter and bridge for the Giants. I wonder how many they could get out of one screen…

Good question. Once you burn your screen (stencil), if made properly, it could last several thousand runs. They're quite durable.

If the pennant was polychromatic, it might actually be made with up to four screens, depending on how many colors it featured. (One screen per color.)

I suspect for each pennant they burned a couple of screens, just in case the primary screen became damaged, e.g., torn mesh. If they were trying to screen a lot of pennants really quickly, like an NL/AL champs pennant for sale at a world series, you might have multiple presses printing the same pennant, side by side.

Here's what a well used screen looked like after a few thousand runs at Chicago Pennant Co....

[bocca001]

If they needed a new screen because the old wore out, would they copy it somehow? In a way that might “lessen” the quality of the original graphics? Or would they start from new?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Good question. Once you burn your screen (stencil), if made properly, it could last several thousand runs. They're quite durable.

If the pennant was polychromatic, it might actually be made with up to four screens, depending on how many colors it featured. (One screen per color.)

I suspect for each pennant they burned a couple of screens, just in case the primary screen became damaged, e.g., torn mesh. If they were trying to screen a lot of pennants really quickly, like an NL/AL champs pennant for sale at a world series, you might have multiple presses printing the same pennant, side by side.

Here's what a well used screen looked like after a few thousand runs at Chicago Pennant Co....

Good info, as always.

We did some silk screening in HS (I think) shop class. I seem to remember using an X-acto knife to cut the stencil. What do you mean by “burning” a screen?

The Seattle screen is cool….do you own it?

[ooo-ribay]

I think this is only the second purple Giants pennant I own.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Good info, as always.

We did some silk screening in HS (I think) shop class. I seem to remember using an X-acto knife to cut the stencil. What do you mean by “burning” a screen?

The Seattle screen is cool….do you own it?

The screens were "burned" because the process involved exposing the screen to a UV light source before performing a "wash out" resulting in the stencil you saw above.

That green substance you see, called "emulsion," is photo sensitive. It's dry/hardened now; but, when it was first developed, the artwork/graphics would have been transferred to transparent paper; then placed atop the dried emulsion inside a dark room. After exposing it to a UV light source for a few minutes, the exposed parts of the emulsion would harden and become waterproof. The unexposed areas (covered by the artwork/graphics) would remain, however, water soluble. When hit with a blast of water, this area of the screen would blow out, creating holes for paint to pass through.

That's how these stencils were made....

[ooo-ribay]

^^^^ pretty much how you do yours, yes?

Am I dreaming in thinking I somehow used an X-acto knife in shop class?

[Domer05]

Exact same process. With a lot less fancy equipment.

...and no X-acto knives.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Exact same process. With a lot less fancy equipment.

...and no X-acto knives.

My last word on this…..I could have sworn we cut some sort of film with an X-acto knife…maybe to make a “negative” to bond to a screen? I dunno…it was a looooong time ago.

I just checked screen printing kits on Amazon….none of them include X-acto knives.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

If they needed a new screen because the old wore out, would they copy it somehow? In a way that might “lessen” the quality of the original graphics? Or would they start from new?

I think if that company owned the original artwork, and they needed to burn another screen, they would remake it using the original artwork--which was likely saved in a file somewhere for just such a purpose. Therefore, I'd expect the successive screens to match the quality of the first.

But, if you were gonna burn a screen by ripping off someone else's artwork, which certainly happened in the pennant biz, then perhaps your knock-off stencil would lose some detail during the translation process? Additionally, if the the resulting pennant were made on a screen with a different mesh count than those made from the original, that would certainly result in a slightly different looking pennant.

Sometimes you might change your screen to a lower mesh count to improve the opacity of your print. Other times you might go with a screen with a higher mesh count to enhance the detail of your print. There are sooooo many variables when making a pennant.

It's all trial and error.... I'm certain some makers made adjustments midway through a production run resulting in very minor variations.

Gives us something to talk about, that's for sure!

[thetahat]

Welcome Phil and Phillis to the pennant basement! These are technically pennants as they have a spine on the back for a dowel …

Anyone from the South Jersey area ever seen the original Phil and Phillis Veterans Stadium “statues” at Storybook Land?

[Domer05]

Greg, I always thought those were cool products! Glad that they made it to the basement.

I believe those were made by HANCO, right? Did they make these for any other MLB teams? I wanna say I've seen one for the Minnesota Twins, maybe?

[ooo-ribay]

I may have nightmares about Phil and Phillis!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Greg, I always thought those were cool products! Glad that they made it to the basement.

I believe those were made by HANCO, right? Did they make these for any other MLB teams? I wanna say I've seen one for the Minnesota Twins, maybe?

Correct. HANCO. And yes I’ve seen the Twins but no other.

Here they are, permanently residing in Egg Harbor Township, NJ. A must see for anyone making the drive from Philly to Atlantic City.

[perezfan]

Gotta believe these were made by same company with the dowel column running down the center. The Reds had 2 versions of this…. Mid 1970s manufacture, just like Phil and if Phillis.

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/39419385...UAAOSwUE5hcIcx

[perezfan]

Here’s the 1976 “repeat” version. The description saying “1975” is incorrect…

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...all-1935223609

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Gotta believe these were made by same company with the dowel column running down the center. The Reds had 2 versions of this…. Mid 1970s manufacture, just like Phil and if Phillis.

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/39419385...UAAOSwUE5hcIcx

Yep looks like it. I think I’ve seen some NFL pennants like this, in particular Green Bay.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Greg, I always thought those were cool products! Glad that they made it to the basement.

I believe those were made by HANCO, right? Did they make these for any other MLB teams? I wanna say I've seen one for the Minnesota Twins, maybe?

They made the Orioles as well.

[Fballguy]

And Batman.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Here’s the 1976 “repeat” version. The description saying “1975” is incorrect…

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...all-1935223609

Interesting. Look carefully: these Reds ones were actually made by ASCO--not HANCO. (ASCO's unique circle + arrow mark can be seen above the copyright.)

They're otherwise identical to the Phill/Phillis combo bearing HANCO's name, i,e., screen printed on white felt w/ a sleeve for a dowel on the reverse center line.

[Domer05]

Here's the Minnesota Twins one I recall seeing. This one's a bit different; instead of going with the cartoonish pair of twin brothers flanking the Mississippi River--which would really complement the Phil/Phillis pairing a bit better--they went with a more realist looking baseball player.

Upon further inspection, that's because this felt figure was made by a different maker: Kresse Kreations (Not Hanco, not ASCO.)

It appears Kresse made a few other similar versions for MLB and even NHL teams....

[perezfan]

Great research and information, Kyle...

Hard to believe that 3 separate companies would manufacture such a similar (and short-lived) product.

[bocca001]

Kyle- there is a Dodgers version of a batter-shaped pennant. I saw it on ebay less than a month ago (although I can't seem to find it now). It said something like NL champs or World series on it.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Kyle- there is a Dodgers version of a batter-shaped pennant. I saw it on ebay less than a month ago (although I can't seem to find it now). It said something like NL champs or World series on it.

WHAAAT. Oh, we must find it now....

Did it look like it was made in the mid-70s, as these were?

[effe]

Bucks and Brewers. A stick in the Bucks would stop at the grommet.

[bocca001]

Originally Posted by Domer05

WHAAAT. Oh, we must find it now....

Did it look like it was made in the mid-70s, as these were?

I can't find it, either in current or completed items.

I believe it was attributed to 1978, either the word series or championship series. I remember thinking that it looked like Steve Garvey. 1970s look for sure.

Because I don't ever search for Dodgers pennants, it must have come up in a general search for "pennant." But, again, I can't find it.

[Domer05]

Meet Mr. Met....

Same construction as the previous felt figure pennants. No maker's mark on this one.

Wasn't there a Mrs. Met, too?

[ooo-ribay]

From the oversized turn of the century pennants to these monstrosities…

[bocca001]

Here is one of the Orioles mascot. Have never seen a Giants version. But there are enough Phillies versions out there for Greg to start on a second basement.

[Fballguy]

Nightmare material. I think Ed and Lorraine Warren exorcised one of those Phillies things.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here is one of the Orioles mascot. Have never seen a Giants version. But there are enough Phillies versions out there for Greg to start on a second basement.

This one says 79 AL champs on the bat. So, these felt figure pennants were made for a good five years or so....

Can you read the maker's mark on the bird's leg?

[Domer05]

Here's a few more felt figure pennants by Kresse Kreations....

Green Bay Packers
Chicago White Sox
Univ. of Wisconsin
Univ. of North Carolina (no mark; but looks to be by Kresse)

These must have been more popular than we thought!

[bocca001]

The Orioles just says TM Baltimore Orioles.

There are football shaped pennants from the Raiders Vikings Super Bowl. They have the ASCO mark.

[murphusa]

New addition

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by murphusa

New addition

Even though the baseball looks like a basketball, at least the felt is triangular.